Is this racist?
By Taskr36
@Taskr36 (13963)
United States
March 2, 2008 7:16pm CST
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly White and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the White religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are a Caucasian people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a White worship service and ministries which address the White Community.
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO EUROPE.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF WHITE PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
So the question stands. Is this racist? Would you vote for a presidential candidate who went to a church with this on their webpage? This was copied from the website for Barrack Obama's church. All I did was change Black to White and African to Caucasian.
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
1 person likes this
12 responses
@superjockh (237)
• United States
3 Mar 08
If you did not posted the link to such statements, I would not believe you. Once I have found so, I would say this is the type of thing Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton would post on their site if they were running for president. That is really weird because Obama has repeatedly stated that he does not want to be known as a black candidate, but as a candidate for the people, I think if this was brought to the attention of the media, Clinton would love you for it. As for if I think it is racist, I am not sure what I think of this statements. I do know one thing for sure: This statements are what Black Supremacists would write same way as White Supremacists would act and represent
-Feel Free to Disagree!
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
4 Mar 08
I'm not a fan of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, but I'm not even sure if they would publicly say and print things so extreme as this. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been brought up more in the media. I guess it's true what Hillary Clinton keeps saying about the media going out of their way to help Obama. If there were a story like this about McCain or Clinton, it would be on the front of every paper and the first story on every news broadcast.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
4 Mar 08
I couldn't say either way. On the one hand it would be very racist if this was a statement made by white people.
On the other hand you have to consider the historical context this was written in. This was written in a time when black people were second class citizens and were told told they should be ashamed to be black.
If us whites didn't treat them like that they would have no reason to state they weren't ashamed to be black.
Our idea of racism is quite new. If a white person wrote this less than 100 years ago would we have considered it such a bad thing then? 100 years sounds like a long time but some people live that long so it's not really.
You still hear white Americans proclaim their pride in their European ancestry today.
But I'm not saying it is right. Maybe they should change it to suit their modern beliefs.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
4 Mar 08
Yes thats right. I am just as guilty, with my objective view.
Don't try and vilify me just because you don't want to hear a different side to the argument.
You ignored my conclusion so I will repeat it - 'I'm not saying it is right. Maybe they should change it to suit their modern beliefs.'
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
4 Mar 08
This is not 100 years ago. I see it in the context of the world we live in now. Hundreds of years ago it was a different world. We have evolved. Our country is much better than it was then. Ancient history is not an excuse for racism. Being proud of your heritage is one thing, but using a church to increase the racial divide in this country is wrong. This is written on their website RIGHT NOW. Black people are not second class citizens. They are not told to be ashamed of being black.
"Us Whites" doesn't include me and I don't appreciate being lumped in with people who were responsible for racism in the past. By lumping me in with every other light skinned person in the country you are just as guilty as the people who think all black people are the same.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
5 Mar 08
I didn't ignore your conclusions, nor am I trying to vilify you. If I didn't want different opinions I would neither start this thread, nor respond to people who disagreed with me. The actions and statements of the church's pastor show that these ARE their modern beliefs. There's nothing to change. The pastor calls this country "The United States of white America". He blames white people for 9-11 and calls it a wake up call for white America. His speeches and his statement in interviews show that his beliefs have not changed and are actually more frightening than what is simply written on the website.
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
3 Mar 08
Just because a church is predominately one race or the other does not make it racist. It's only if the congregation discourages the joining of people who are not of that race. I know an elderly white woman who attends a AME, African Methodist Episcopal Church. She is the only white face in the crowd and they embrace her. Thats why she goes. I respect all religious views. For the record, though, a candidate's religion makes no difference to me. It's what I feel is in their heart that gains or loses my vote.
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
4 Mar 08
I can agree to a point. But if a church is predominantly black should it not focus on black issues. I think that I am playing devil's advocate at this point, but in trying to see the other side clearly. Grant is, if a predominately white church focused only on the issues of the white farmer, it would be considered racist. However, rather than tagging this church with a racist tag, I would prefer to state that it is not racist for a predominately white church to focus on white issues. The fact still remains that racism is a means of excluding another race. I doubt this church would push out a white member. I've known only a handful of predominantly white churches that seek to push away blacks. IT's the same thing.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
4 Mar 08
A church being predominantly of one race is not the issue. Churches are made up of people in the community and any community that is predominantly one race will have churches that are predominantly that race. My point is that it's suspect for a church to be so dedicated to one race to the exclusion of others. The church seems more focused on the black issue than it is on the matter of religion. The pastor himself has made numerous racist statements even saying that 9-11 was a wakeup call for white America.
A candidates religion makes little difference to me. I don't know what religion McCain or Clinton believe in, nor do I really care. My concern is his affiliation not with religion, but with a church that is run by a racist and focuses on furthering the racial divide in our country.
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
4 Mar 08
Most people seem to misunderstand the meaning of racism. Now days, people often mistake racial pride as racism - though that's far from the truth. The quote you gave above is in no way racist. It does contain an immense feeling of pride for one's race (which I believe is silly, no matter what race you are), but that does no mean it's in any way racist.
If it had said something to the effect of "Our race is superior to all others" then yes, it would be racist. However, I'm not picking up an implication of "our race is better than yours", which is really the only possible thing that could make it sound racist.
Finally - the views of the church are not necessarily the views of the individual. Just because his church states such a thing, does not mean Barack Obama believes the same way. Let's not try and crucify a person for the beliefs of his church. No man is a walking representation of all the views of his church.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
4 Mar 08
People do choose what church to be a member of. There are many Catholic churches where I live but I chose one where I respect the pastor, priests, and agree with the tenets of that church.
If the pastor at my church had said the hateful and racist things that the pastor of Obama's church has said, I would never go back nor associate myself with that pastor. Obama however, states that he is proud of his church and has the highest respect for his pastor.
His pastor was quoted in his own newspaper as saying that 9-11 was evidence that "people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared' as the Great White West went on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns." That's not simply racism, but borders on advocating terrorism. Would you be friends with someone like that? Would you go to a church that was run by someone like that?
@lolalolacherrycola (899)
• United States
6 Mar 08
I think the point that the poster of this discussion wanted to make was that if a another candidate or a 100% Caucasian person allied themselves with this, they would get a ton of flack for it.
There indeed seems to be alot of reverse racism in the USA today as far as I am concerned.
@coolseeds (3919)
• United States
3 Mar 08
If a you go to the about us page http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
Replace black with white every time it occurs. This would be labeled a white cult. It wouldn't even be classified as a religious organization.
The next part is worse. This is an exact quote. "We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land,"
This is as far as American as you can get. As someone in politics Obama has to be an idiot or up to something bad. Bush was elected twice so we know there is an ignorance amongst the American voters. Hopefully they will wake up and smell the coffee.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
3 Mar 08
The true to our native land statement is rather telling. Unfortunately there are too many voters who are ignorant and really don't take the time to learn about their candidates. Some people vote purely based on demographics and have no idea what anyone stands for.
@coolseeds (3919)
• United States
3 Mar 08
Exactly. It was the ignorance of the people who allowed Hitler to take control. Except he wrote a book telling what he was going to do. LOL
@ddzdvd (361)
• United States
6 Mar 08
it is extremely racist and i see no problem with it.white people need to do the same thing.racism is never going to end.i am all for getting along- but it doesnt seem to be working. if ron paul was a member of a white and racist church we all know he would not be treated the same as obamma hussein.and thats just the TRUTH
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
3 Mar 08
I would say that this is racist, but it seems that if you had written it as it was written on Obama's churche's website, I am sure that many people would say that it is not racist and that is what infuriates me. Why is it all right for black people, i.e. African Americans to be ashamed that they are of the Negro of the Human race, but us who of the Caucasian portion of the Human Race, if we say that we are proud of being white, that we have in our society's backgrond famous people such as Bach, Beethoven, Elizabeth I, etc. then we are considered racists? Racism is the same whether black or white. We have just as much right to not be ashamed of our heritage ans the black people.
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
3 Mar 08
NOTE; CORRECT;
I meant to say, why is all right for black people, i.e. African Amercians not to be ashamed that they are of the Negro portion of the Human Race
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
3 Mar 08
I understand the point you're trying to make here; I'm sure none of the arguments I could come up with will do any good so I'll just say very simply, yes that is racist in a way since whites aren't and haven't been in the minority and they have not endured the things blacks have through history. In saying this I'm not saying it's right for a black church to have this on their website either. However, as a white person who has never endured any kind of persecution or discrimination due to race I must admit I can't possibly see things through the eyes of black people. I understand your main point is we shouldn't vote for Obama because of the church he attends and to that I say it makes no difference whatsoever to me what church any candidate attends or IF he or she attends church at all as long as he or she upholds the separation of church and state. I'm sure many people don't necessarily agree with every single thing their church or pastor advocates, or at least I'd hope that would be the case.
Annie
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
3 Mar 08
Thank you for your response. Just to clarify, I'm not saying anyone shouldn't vote for Obama. This is America and everyone is free to make their own choice. I'm just trying to shed a little more light on his background and beliefs. I personally, would not call him a racist as I would never say that without indisputable evidence. His pastor Jeremiah Wright is a racist. There is more than enough evidence of that.
I don't think past persecution is an excuse for racism and discrimination in today's world. Asian, Irish, Polish, Hispanic, and Native Americans have all suffered discrimination in this country. During WWII Asian Americans were even put into concentration camps in this country.
Part of the problem is that Jeremiah Wright has been involved in his campaign and has been referred to as a close friend. He was even going to introduce Obama at speeches before his campaign adviser recommended against it. Perhaps this is no big deal to some people. It concerns me and I just want to keep people informed.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
3 Mar 08
I agree, we all should be informed and make our decision based on all the information we can get. I'm sorry, I think I worded that wrong, I know you're not trying to tell anyone who to vote for or not to vote for. I don't agree with the things I've heard about this pastor either and I also think the past should be put behind us and we should move on. I'm just the tpe who likes to try to imagine myself in others' shoes, so to speak and it's hard because I never have experienced any of the discrimination many others have. You're so right, it's not limited to blacks. In my little Pa. town it was unbelievable how the Italian and Polish people were treated even in my lifetime. How I'd love to see a world without prejudice!
Annie
@Yestheypayme2dothis (7874)
• United States
21 Mar 08
If a man has been attending this church for 20 years, he believes all of this. There are many churches to choose from. Obama is for all the people while he is looking for votes....if he becomes president, you can forget being for all the people. If he goes to a church with a minister like Wright, his head is still in the days of slavery.
@lolalolacherrycola (899)
• United States
6 Mar 08
Whoa! I started to read and thought immediately, Oh my gosh, this sounds so bigotted! This guy is going to get a lot of flack for posting this!
I got to the end and was shocked.
No, I did not and would not vote for Obama. Even before I read this, he did not have my vote, now he will never get it.
Thanks for the post!
@goldic (26)
• Indonesia
4 Mar 08
For me it's not a big deal if he talk or think about that. As long he can stand up and fight the racist. But if he think of that and did what he said only for his race, it's really not good for his campaign.
Better choose a man or woman that can be leader of all race with all respect.
@star2316 (41)
• United States
3 Mar 08
I do believe this is racist. If that came from the website of the church a presidential candidate was from then that candidate would never get my vote. I do not believe in racism and i do not support it at all. Racism can go both ways, whites against blacks and blacks against whites. We all just need to get along. We are all one in God's eyes, so we should treat everyone that way. I'm glad you brought this up.
