no offense but can i ask you christians something?
@kellyclarkson244 (223)
Singapore
37 responses
@kulaskulasito (430)
• United States
8 Apr 08
Hi Kellyclarkson, I thought your question was really intersting and really though-provoking. Thanks.
Anyway, you see we Christians believe that God is a Trinity. He is a Father, Son and Spirit. I may not have to answer your question about the Trinity right now because it falls into another topic, but we beleive that for humanity's salvation, the Son - the second person of the Trinity - came down here to dwell among us, to preach the Kingdom of God, to suffer and die for love of us, and the resurrect and come back to the Fahter. So I guess you are right in asking "if Christ is a God and He prays to the Father as God, how could a God pray to God?"
Well, prayer is a broad concept. When we speak of prayer, we do not really speak of an incantation or rituals of adoration and praise. They are part of it, yes. But prayer can also come in the facets of request, supplication, thanksgiving, resignation, or sometimes even questions or confusion. These are all prayers. The buttom line is, PRAYER UNDERSCORES RELATIONSHIP - the relationship of the one praying to, and being prayed upon.
You see, when Jesus prays to the Father, He is merely being faithful to the RELATIONSHIP that exists between Him and the Father, and the Spirit at that. They are in a RELATIONSHIP. Much like us, when we talk to our father or mothers, and say we thank them, or we confide our problems to them, or we "adore" them for their goodness, or we are marveled by their generosity, or we complain or "hate" them for something we cannot understand, well, these are all like prayer because they are about RELATIONSHIPS. We nurture our relationship by expressing ourselves to our loved ones. Otherwise, when communications and sharing is gone, the relationship breaks down.. And we've seen a lot of these thigns happen in our society.
Because JESUS IS IN A RELATIONSHIP with the Father and the Spirit, he is merely nurturing their bond in communication. He has to enter into a commuincation or communion with them. Jesus had to enter into the loving presence of the Father and the Spirit for Him to nurture their relationship whenever we pray.
So I don't think it's like A GOD WORSHIPPING A GOD thing. It's more the persons of the Trinity entering into a loving relationship with each other that made Jesus frequently prayed to the Father and the Spirit.
Hope that helps.
1 person likes this
@beijair (206)
• United States
18 Apr 08
Wow, you have really worked hard to make yourself believe your myth is actually real. The trinity? Many christians do not believe in the trinity and the bible doesn't actually support the idea of the trinity.
Let us look at this logically and scripturally: You are about to learn something profound. When someone attempts to teach a doctrine that doesn't follow scripture they are always Forced to use words that are no scriptural.
One: NOWHERE in the scripture does is God referred to or called a TRINITY!
TWO: The word THREE is NEVER used in reference to Who or What God is.
Three: God is NEVER called or referred to as "a person."
Four: The Holy Spirit is NEVER called "God."
Five: Since Christ is the Son, He CAN NOT also be the Father or be coequal with his Father.
Christ Clearly Stated (so the bible tells us): "My Father is Greater than I" John 14:28
So even Jesus knew he was not his father...go figure.
However, you seem to know more than what the scriptures tell us.
What does the Hastings Dictionary of the Bible tell us?
Page 1015: Trinity - The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three persons and one substance is NOT demonstrable by logic or scriptural proof.
Shocking, very shocking, indeed.
Did you happen to notice another 'unscriptural word used in the definition? "one substance" Amazing, God is NEVER referred to as Substance in scriptures. NOWHERE!
Anyone that has taking time to actually study scripture would know that is NOT composed of some magical substance. God is spirit and that is according to original greek. he is never referred to as "a spirit" he is never a "substance".
Christian will often quote: "I and the Father, We are One" John 10:30
Notice, Jesus DID NOT say "I and the Father, We are one God"...NO...he didn't. That is a profound difference which is important to understanding what you read.
Let me help you a little: Jesus, Holy Spirit, God....one, plus one, plus one, does not equal ONE! Pretty simple. I do not see in the bible where it indicates that each is one third of a god and added together equals one god....do you? Absolutely, NOT.
I understand that people need to believe in a God or person that Loves them so much and is with them all the time, have a need to make excuses in order to keep that dream, myth, alive. It is very important to the emotional and mental stability and part of the minds way to protect itself.
Peace
@beijair (206)
• United States
18 Apr 08
Wow, you have really worked hard to make yourself believe your myth is actually real. The trinity? Many christians do not believe in the trinity and the bible doesn't actually support the idea of the trinity.
Let us look at this logically and scripturally: You are about to learn something profound. When someone attempts to teach a doctrine that doesn't follow scripture they are always Forced to use words that are no scriptural.
One: NOWHERE in the scripture does is God referred to or called a TRINITY!
TWO: The word THREE is NEVER used in reference to Who or What God is.
Three: God is NEVER called or referred to as "a person."
Four: The Holy Spirit is NEVER called "God."
Five: Since Christ is the Son, He CAN NOT also be the Father or be coequal with his Father.
Christ Clearly Stated (so the bible tells us): "My Father is Greater than I" John 14:28
So even Jesus knew he was not his father...go figure.
However, you seem to know more than what the scriptures tell us.
What does the Hastings Dictionary of the Bible tell us?
Page 1015: Trinity - The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three persons and one substance is NOT demonstrable by logic or scriptural proof.
Shocking, very shocking, indeed.
Did you happen to notice another 'unscriptural word used in the definition? "one substance" Amazing, God is NEVER referred to as Substance in scriptures. NOWHERE!
Anyone that has taking time to actually study scripture would know that is NOT composed of some magical substance. God is spirit and that is according to original greek. he is never referred to as "a spirit" he is never a "substance".
Christian will often quote: "I and the Father, We are One" John 10:30
Notice, Jesus DID NOT say "I and the Father, We are one God"...NO...he didn't. That is a profound difference which is important to understanding what you read.
Let me help you a little: Jesus, Holy Spirit, God....one, plus one, plus one, does not equal ONE! Pretty simple. I do not see in the bible where it indicates that each is one third of a god and added together equals one god....do you? Absolutely, NOT.
I understand that people need to believe in a God or person that Loves them so much and is with them all the time, have a need to make excuses in order to keep that dream, myth, alive. It is very important to the emotional and mental stability and part of the minds way to protect itself.
Peace
@apunghl (13)
• Singapore
18 Apr 08
Well, God is God. God is not human, he is God. If God is human then he is not god but human.
How do we understand or know what is god ?...
An anecdote from st Agustine,
He was walking along the beach pondering about God, when he saw a little girl taking a small pail, scooping water from the ocean and pouring it into a hole that she made.
Curious, he ask the little girl, what she was doing and she answered that she wanted to empty the ocean into the hole.
St Agustine laughed and answered, how do you empty the ocean which is so vast into that little hole ?
The little then answered, and you were trying to understand God in you puny brain....
St Agustine pondered and look and saw that the little girl had disappeared....
I hope this answers the understanding of God, t
2 people like this
@rev1wendy (611)
• United States
8 Apr 08
So what, your mouth can't talk to your brain? You can see your mouth just as Jesus was seen. You cannot see your brain because it is inside of you. Just as God could not be seen, for He was in Jesus. I tried to make it as simple as possible. It is a little more complicated than that, but that is my interpretation.
@beijair (206)
• United States
20 Apr 08
rev1wendy:
we can see our brains, we have ways to test and photograph our brains, such as an MRI.
but for some strange reason, we are not allowed to test and make any attempt to prove god. seems he is very afraid of that concept.
go doesn't heal amputee's either...christian tell us they were healed of their cold, after they prayed to god and ran to the doctor for mediation..haha. I guess people with colds are more important to god than people that have lost their arms or legs in war. apparently.
i know that if you or anyone had the faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to a mountain to be moved and it would be. that is the promise of god. did you happen to notice none of the christian apparently have this faith or they just don't care about all the children that die of hunger, abuse and so on? that is one way we can determine if there is a god or if you actually have faith. we have many christians that claim they have so much faith so apparently there is no god or they would have healed the world by now. or an amputee or two.
did you notice how christians tell us they can't wait to be with god and then when they or their family members that believe become terminally ill, they pray to live, to be healed. why don't they pray to die quickly and be with god. apparently they are not too in love with this god of theirs or they would work harder to be with him.
i could go on for days about the things that are not logical or do not make a bit of rational sense with regards to god's.
peace
@rev1wendy (611)
• United States
22 Apr 08
God loves us enough to have given us freedom of choice. Satan made his choice, I have made mine. It sounds like you have made yours. God created love. Satan choose to walk away. There are only 2 choices. I will stand in God's army. And I will win.
1 person likes this
@walijo2008 (4644)
• United States
14 Apr 08
Thats a hard question to answer for me too. The idea of God the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. I've been a Christian for a long time. Like you, I hold to my faith, because its what I've always believed, and there are alot of things in the Bible that are hard to understand.
@eden32 (3973)
• United States
2 May 08
Although I no longer identify as such, I was raised Catholic. One of the ways the trinity (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit) was explained in my junior high religion class was by comparing it to water- water frozen is ice, water heated is steam & water at room temp is water- it's all the same, but in very different forms. Jesus we were taught was the son of God, but also God and also the Holy Spirit. Then when we all still didn't quite get it, our religion teacher would say "well it's a mystery you're not suppose to get it, you're just suppose to believe it."
1 person likes this
@moon317318 (692)
• Pakistan
22 May 08
GOD says those who say TRINITY there is a painful torment for them.
even if you read bible it says that trinity does not exist, why do u believe it then,
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
22 May 08
bro moon how do you explain this, Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," ;)
@runner0369 (641)
• United States
11 Apr 08
I am a Baha'i not a christian but I will offer my opinion. I believe that Jesus, as well as all the other Manifestations of God, are like mirrors which reflect the Light of God in all its splendor. Thus, when you "look" at Them (follow Their teachings, believe in Them) you "see" God (feel the love of God). Therefore, the Bible says that Jesus is God. But They are not actually God, They are an instrument which reflects God so it can also be said that they are not God. They still pray to God because that is their way of turning to God so that they can better reflect the light of God.
@kellyclarkson244 (223)
• Singapore
12 Apr 08
Now this is a good answer. thank you runner0369. I understand what you are trying to say very well. this is the answer that i was looking for. now i understand why christians pray to god. i am not asking anyone to convert. anyway its your choice.
@nAyOhMi14 (298)
• Philippines
22 Apr 08
Jesus is the son of God, He is not the actually God. Your a muslim so you don't really know about that,it's in the bible.
1 person likes this
@rev1wendy (611)
• United States
22 May 08
Jesus Christ is the Son of God AND the Son of Man. Some should take care how they throw around accusations here. It is one thing to say someone doesn't know something, but altogether different when saying someone lied.
@moon317318 (692)
• Pakistan
22 May 08
please don't lie here on mylot.....
if you read bible you will find that Jesus(PBUH) himself said that he was a son of man, NOT GOD,, you really need to be careful in saying things around, you can mislead people here,,,
@happythoughts (4109)
• United States
22 Apr 08
I am a Christian, and I have an answer for you. Christian religions are religions that believe in Christ. I believe that God and Christ are two different persons. God is the father and Christ the son. That is how my religion believes it to be and really I didnt know that other Christians believed that they were the same being. I guess we learn something new every day.
1 person likes this
@elshaddai123 (3981)
• Kottayam, India
18 Apr 08
He is man as well as God.As a human he prayed to God as anybody else.
1 person likes this
@lifbrue (108)
• United States
22 Apr 08
It is a little weird. The Christian tradition has this belief in the "trinity" where God is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's kind of a mysterious idea as are many of the ideas that come from any religion that tries to describe God. You can think of it that Jesus was communicating with the other parts of the trinity -- kind of like team meeting or something. Prayer is just communication with God, so they were all communicating. But, in general -- it's hard to describe God, isn't it?
1 person likes this
@footprints55 (254)
• India
7 Apr 08
Jesus is God but He came to the earth as a human being leaving is Glory behind. For Christians prayer is communicating with God. What Son would not talk to his father? He always sought after His Father's will. Hope you find the truth!! :)
1 person likes this
@edgyk8inmomma (2157)
• United States
11 Apr 08
Kelly, you posted this question to ask what Christians believe. Your responses have only been upheld by the Quran, which we do not believe is a reliable source.
May I pose a question for you?
I know enough people of Islamic faith, and have studied enough of the religion to have a jest of it. I know you all believe and even read the Bible, you may not hold it as high as the Quran, but non-the-less, you do hold it.
In the very first sentence of the Bible, you can read God speak to someone, "Let US make man in OUR image." Who was God talking to???
@edgyk8inmomma (2157)
• United States
22 Apr 08
Yeah, ya notice "kelly" didn't respond? Everytime I pose that question to a person of Islamic faith, they have no answer, or change the subject, or start attacking one of my beliefs. I don't expect "kelly" to have anything to add...
@moon317318 (692)
• Pakistan
22 May 08
[i][u]this response is from BIBLE read it carefully,,,,,
well you really need to study BIBLE carefully, nowhere does it say Jesus(PBUH) was God or said worship me... no trinity word in BIBLE....[/u][/i]
Jesus(PBUH) was a man acts 2:22, mathew 9:6 and many more....
man in our image:
God was talking to the Abgels,
he created Adam(PBUH) at that time, not Jesus(PBUH),
@edgyk8inmomma (2157)
• United States
8 Apr 08
I will try my best, I've been a Christian most of my life, but I'm not a "blind faith follower" of any religion. I've researched and studied many other religions to come to my own conclusions. So here goes:
Jesus explained to his disciples that his teachings were hard to understand for those who didn't want to understand. This was on purpose, He didn't want his enemies to be able to use his teachings against him. BUT he gave his disciples a promise, he said for those of you that truly desire to understand me, my father, and what we have, then all you have to do is ask, and it will be given to you. So, when thing like this get hard to understand, first we must ask ourselves if we truly want to understand, if we do then we need to go to the father and ask for wisdom. Next we need to listen, he WILL speak to us. Not always in an audible voice, sometimes through scriptures, sometimes through wise people, and sometimes through dreams.
This is my understanding. Jesus is not God himself, he is a part of God. In Genesis one God says, Let us make man in our image. That implies that He was not alone, therefor Jesus was not created at the time of his conception, he was with his father and his father was with him. Now you ask, so we did he say if you have seen me you have seen the father? That isn't saying that they are one in the same, it is saying that he is a perfect reflection(similar to a mirrored reflection) of his father. So am I a Christian who debunks the trinity? Some may say yes, but here's the thing, God said He is the only god. Period end of discussion. BUT Jesus is part of his father, and was given control of his father's kingdom.
Did any of that make sense???
@kellyclarkson244 (223)
• Singapore
8 Apr 08
what a lengthy response.thanks for the response. how can GOD show a clue to what GOD looks like? dont you think people may start to come out with pictures of HIM and make fun of HIM? GOD never allow anyone to control HIS kingdom as you call it. and muhammad s.a.w is the messenger of GOD if you can recall or if you do not know this.
1 person likes this
@edgyk8inmomma (2157)
• United States
8 Apr 08
Genesis clearly states that man was made in God's image, therefore he gaves a clue. And when Jesus spoke of this, he wasn't talking about physical attributes, he was talking about the way he was.
You asked what I believe, so I ansered. Then you respond with your muslim beliefs, I know what you believe, I already stated that I've studid many religions. I was sharing my beliefs. I don't believe Mohamad was any contributor to my faith.
@walijo2008 (4644)
• United States
14 Apr 08
Yes, edgy I agree with you, Genesis states that we are made in God's image, meaning that we are to be Christlike. We are to be like him, loving, caring, compassionate people, we are to love everyone the same as he does. I think thats what it means when it says we are made in God's image. We aren't perfect, but we should strive to do the best we can everyday. We don't know what he looks like, nobody does, nobody has seen him. I think if we did, we wouldn't be able to handle seeing him in all his Glory. I believe also that there is only 1 God, that no matter what religion you are, we all serve the same God.
@vidhya_anu (97)
• India
11 Apr 08
Jesus is son of father GOD.Though he has given all the powers but he is humble and pray and obey his father GOD.We human can follow his way the morality ,humbleness and love towards our fellow beings.
@kellyclarkson244 (223)
• Singapore
11 Apr 08
Ok.you all still don't understand. as i said, god has no son, daughter ar whatever. don't you get it?? god has never given his powers to anyone.
@vidhya_anu (97)
• India
11 Apr 08
It is a big story.You have to read the whole bible from the beginning to understand the concepts.The lord who created everthing and life on earth .When the people committed sins and god felt sad that peolple who he created are not faithful and courteous to him.So he just came to earth as jesus christ who is called son of god and saved his people.How sweet he is ?If he had thought of demolishing the world he would have done completely.He didnt do so.rather he gave his life in cross.Lord exist in other form called holy spirit.So jesus the son of god obey his father.Is this wrong?It might be critical to understand the concepts but once we get to know about the love of god then we would live for him and die for him.
1 person likes this
@gcrew931 (228)
• Philippines
22 Apr 08
The way understand it is that jesus is not 100% divine. He became human to understand how we feel, how it is to be tempted, how it is to pray, and how hard it is to sacrifice. So, in a way, He was just a person experiencing everything. Now the question is he praying to another God. The answer is no. He is praying to himself. Isn't there times when you talk to yourself and tell yourself what you want to happen in life, your hardships and what not. So, it's like this. Jesus is talking to his divine side. It's pretty much rational actually. It's like us playing different roles in our lives. I mean I am a son, student, friend, and the list goes on. It's like the son aspect of myself is talking to the friend aspect of myself. That's the best metaphor to use I guess. That's just my two cents worth and I'm not claiming that it is the absolute truth. Peace be with all of us!
@edgyk8inmomma (2157)
• United States
22 Apr 08
That's a very good concept and way to look at it. I still think trying to define God and His relationship with Jesus, and how the Holy Ghost fits is, are humans trying to put God into a box for us to understand. BUT, with that description, we can gain a little understanding, just remember God is much greater than our minds, so you have to multiply that concept some how to get it out of its box.
@buenavida (9984)
• Sweden
27 May 08
Good question..and very logical..
It may surprise you that the Bible does not teach about any trinity of gods, in the contrary it shows clearly that God and his Son are two different persons and the holy spirit is not a person but the power that God uses to make things happen according to his will.
There are lots of people I know who believe it this way and many of them have studied the Bible for a long time and come to this conclusion.
If we study the original languages that the Bible was written in, it will explain many misunderstandings.
Please read these articles, I think they may explain it better: http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050422/article_02.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_08.htm
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
28 May 08
How come God will accept you? we are all sinner.
let us see what the Bible said:
Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
Isaiah 64:6 "All of us have become like one who is unclean,"
Before Christ was born what they do to forgave their sin:
--The Sin Offering, John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
then how can we Go to heaven?
Do the Sin Offering?
"Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire , nor were you pleased with them"(although the law required them to be made)..."
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
28 May 08
the passage above "Sacrifices and offerings , burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). is found in Hebrews 10:8 :)
@chiyosan (30183)
• Philippines
8 Apr 08
As far as i believe, Jesus is the mediator, Human - Jesus - God.
I do believe that Jesus came to earth to give us salvation, through his life and his works and his words.
I am a christian and i believe in Jesus who has brought enlightenment to humans. I believe in Christ but i pray to God directly... does that makes sense? hehe
@SHAMRACK (8576)
• India
2 May 08
Dear friend,
From my tiny knowledge I only know that Jesus is son of God a close one to God who came on earth to save the humans and give them the right path. Also I hope Jesus never said he is God. It the God's closeness and the tolerance has make Jesus more close to God finally attaining those Godly power. Jesus also treid to wash those sins of humans and gave new path to reach to God.
@moon317318 (692)
• Pakistan
22 May 08
no offences but don't you read bible it says that Jesus(PBUH) was a messanger, a man, son of man, not the son of God, this is all written in BIBLE, if u read carefully
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
22 May 08
bro moon read this its found in the Bible.. http://www.contenderministries.org/discrepancies/natureofchrist.php#christgod :)
@jewelenterprises (1996)
• Australia
18 Apr 08
I understand entirely where you are coming from my friend. I am also glad to see that you are open minded enough to ask the question rather than just dismiss the issue.. good for you!
I once did a bible course and was basically asked the same question. My answer actually earned me an 'A' marking because my teacher was impressed by my astute thinking... which obviously gave me a huge thrill.
Okay, my take on this. In Genesis it says that 'God said, "let us make man in our image."' The 'us' in this reference is a plural word. However, what many people do not realise is that the Hebrew language has three references.. singular (1), dual(2) AND plural (three or more)
Now, when you look at mankind... we consist of three parts. We have a body. We have a soul (intellect). And we have a spirit (the eternal part of us). So lets look at these three in context to God.
Body - Well, the body of God was Jesus himself.
Soul - God the father, the driving force behind the Godhead
Spirit - The Holy spirit (the life giving force and power)
So the three are all part of the one being. Now I guess Jesus praying to God the father is like holding a conversation with oneself. The mind is an interesing thing, capable of holding one thought on the surface while holding an opposing thought at an unconscious level. So in a way, Jesus was actually conversing with the unconscious side of the Godhead... and he did so at a verbal level in his effort to find guidance. When you think about it, even our minds are made up of three aspects, conscious, subconscious and unconscious.
@kellyclarkson244 (223)
• Singapore
18 Apr 08
thanks for the response. i understand clearly what you have explained to me.
@roanne05 (1290)
• Oman
18 May 08
wow, what a legthly discussion... i am a christian first of all. as i understand it. there is one God. we call it holy trinity. one God in three Person. God the father, God the son and the Holy spirit. we pray to only one God. God the son or Jesus as you've known is praying to God the Father which is one person of the holy trinity.
@kellyclarkson244 (223)
• Singapore
18 May 08
Thanks for the response. i didn't think that alot of people would reply to this discussion. It's kind of kool though.
@lieanat (1137)
• Malaysia
20 May 08
Hi, kellyclarkson244.
I'm glad that you proud of your religion. But since young, I never ever accept it though it promote good values in life too.
As for your question, I as a christian believe that there is a Trinity of God. To know it more, do read our Bible and by the grace of God and Holy Spirit, you will get the answer!!!
@moon317318 (692)
• Pakistan
22 May 08
hi how are you friend....
do you know that trinity does not exist, even if you read bible the word TRINITY does not exist in the whole bible,
Jesus(PBUH) never said that he was son of God, rather he said that he was a son of man, not God, this is written in bible ....
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
22 May 08
bro moon what about this Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," and this also found in the Bible.. http://www.contenderministries.org/discrepancies/natureofchrist.php#christgod :)
