What gives?

rev1wendy - "I also think "human nature" is a scape goat for a lot of wrong behavior and attitudes. If people would quit blaming their mistakes on human nature and try "cleaning out their closets" the world might just become a lot more tolerable." Actually, this is a lot easier to say than it is to do. we are not all created equal in all ways. Some of us are stronger than others. Some of us have better resources to fall back on than others. I was able to stop smoking cold turkey many years ago with no problems. It would be easy for me to say that if I can do it, so can anyone else. But, I have seen the struggle my husband and some of my friends have had trying to give up this "habit". They really do try and sometimes even succeed for a while; but, eventually, they go right back to it. When I was younger, it was easy for me to lose weight. As I got older and had an accident which injured by back and other injuries to my knees; I was not able to exercise as much and it became more difficult to maintain a low weight. Then, I entered menopause and my metabolism slowed way down. I eat less than anyone else in my family; but, my weight still increases if I do not keep a very close eye on my diet; and, once a pound is on it is a major struggle to get it back off. My younger self would have had a "self righteous attitude" and told my current self that I just wasn't "really trying". However, after living with my body 24/7 for the past few years AND knowing the effort that I am putting into it, I would tell my younger self to "take a hike". When you already know that you have problems - you don't want someone else forcing you to look at them over and over and over. When someone does that it really is "human nature" to strike back. You can only put up with it for so long; before your temper flares (and some people have more problems controlling their tempers than others do). When it comes down to "human nature" and vegetarianism; human beings are omnivorous and meat is part of our natural diet. Whether you believe in "creation" or "evolution" - in both cases - early man ate meat, fish, fowl, etc.

your attitude is that YOU are RIGHT and the other people are WRONG and they SHOULD change. Guess what, they think the same thing about you. Sure, my attitude is that I think eating meat is wrong... just like some people think smoking, murder, rape, molestation, kidnapping, "sleeping around" etc etc are wrong. Now, the problem I have is that people seem to think it is not okay for me to state my opinion about eating meat. What should I say instead? "I think eating meat is wrong, unless there is a health or economic reason that requires one to do so" pretty much sums up my opinion. What do you suggest I say instead? As for them thinking the same thing about me... uh... why would anyone care if I don't eat meat? There is no argument that it is "wrong to not eat meat." Vegans/vegetarians make people feel self-conscious and bad about themselves. It makes them take a close look at themselves and sometimes they do not like what they see. SOME of them would like to eat healthier and/or become vegetarians; but, they cannot overcome temptation and a lifetime of dietary habits. When you make someone feel bad about themselves; many of them will retaliate and try to make you feel bad about yourself too. After all, "who are you to make them feel bad" - you aren't perfect either. So basically what I have gathered from this paragraph is that simply by being vegan/vegetarian it automatically makes people feel bad about themselves. So, people shouldn't be vegetarian now? Or they should just never tell anyone that they are? I certainly do not TRY to make anyone feel bad about themselves. If my being vegan makes peopl feel bad then... uh okay? If my expressing my opinion about the treatment/use of animals makes anyone feel bad then, again, so? If someone is suggesting people take a closer look at what they are eating and these people actually agree that some of the things they are doing are "wrong" (according to their own ethics) then how is that ever a bad thing? I mean, it sounds like you are actually suggesting that people not talk about the truth of animal agriculture just in case it might make some people feel bad about what they eat/not like what they see when they see what they are doing.

I think that the people who are "forced" to look at themselves and do not like what they see, maybe should have been "forced" to do that a while ago. While I somewhat agree about the human nature, I also think "human nature" is a scape goat for a lot of wrong behavior and attitudes. If people would quit blaming their mistakes on human nature and try "cleaning out their closets" the world might just become a lot more tolerable.

Have I met you? I have heard somebody say that about "killing plants" what can we eat?

Killing plants... uh? so... your point? Did those plants feel pain? No. Apples and oranges...