Stop high gas prices - Be Heard!

Here I'll post a non-biased answer: one side says no, and another side says yes. They both could be wrong. They both have very persuasive and convincing argumeents, and who the heck understands the economy anyway?

Ive been through alot lately. My dad is very ill, has been for over a month now. And my mother is driving me nuts. Other than that life is just peachy I can understand the working hard. I been working 2 jobs for 3 months. My daughter is 16-joy joy-NOT-lol Well who ever we get stuck with for pres. we are all going to be hurting. Hugs-I've missed you

Hey dangnabit! How have you been? I've been swamped at work. They good news is that we are having an impact and financial professionals are lining up to work with us. Changing the world one family at a time! I agree. Neither candidate represents my positions on just about anything. I am afraid it will be a choice between the lesser of two evils. I don't now if signing the petition will help, but I always support making your voice heard. If you read some of the posts to this discussion you will get a pretty good view of both sides of the argument. Everyone involved has posted polite, well thought out arguments. You just have to see which of them rings true for you. Of course I think my view is right. Lol. But so does each of the others. Here is how I see it. Obama is all sizzle and no steak. He hasn't done anything but he speaks very well and makes you feel good. McCain is all steak and no sizzle. He has done a lot but he doesn't present himself well.

The way I look at farm subsidies basically is that the government is paying the farmer subsidies to make up for the fact that he can't make a decent living with market prices what they are. Market prices are what they are because our country is exporting so much to foreign countries because they will pay more for it than what can be made with it here in this country. Many of the subsidies are payments to the farmer for NOT producing a certain crop - another effort of the government to control the market price. If he were to plant and harvest that crop, he would make at least a small profit, so if the government wants him to not raise that crop - they should be definitely paying him something - he still has to pay taxes and insurance on that property whether he raises anything on it or not.

Good points newtondak. Farm subsidies have been messing up our agriculture industry for years. It's time for the government to get out of that industry and let market determine what is grown. And I also agree that hybrids are too expensive and there should be someway to convert our cars to other fuel sources. I saw that somewhere on the west coast some people have converted their diesel cars to run on discarded fryer oil from restaurants. It may smell funny but it is cheap and available. If they can do that, I am sure that there are many other solutions as well.

Thank you suspenseful. I appreciate your kind words about our country and your kind hopes for us. Your country is one of the wise countries that is benefiting from a responsible oil policy. Good for Canada!

Well said and I agree with you. Postponing the problem is not fixing it. Alternative fuels are the solution.

We can't wait that long for a maybe. My informaion is that the oil that's there, is not significant enough to ease our worries, especially since we have no gaurentee that our government will sell solely to our country which would probably be the only way it might help in any way. It's MAYBE enough for a single year of consumption. But of course we don't really know. Speculation, as far as I can see, has much less to do with things, than traders and the people who sell oil do. They're responsible for the prices, they claim that THAT is based on supply and demand. They have plenty of supply and ever-growing demand, yet they raise the prices steadily higher...because they can. I've watched the math as this all goes on, and yes, many reasons presented are illogical...and that's because alot of reasons presented are lies as well. You're assuming that this would all be dealt with honestly. Both Bush and McCain wants this. Bush...everything he's done...in terms of this economy has been for the profit of companies and not for our benefit. McCain flipflops, and everyone knows he's been infested by lobbyists since this whole thing began. That alone should say enough. REGARDLESS; the more remote an area the more it costs, individual states...besides Alaska could ban our government from doing it, regardless of what they say, or they could charge extra fees or tax them over it. Equipment might be more costly depending on the challenges of the area -- there are more drawbacks th benefits. And by time we got the oil, it remains, ignoring all the ecological reasons, prices are likely to be even more insane and by that point it probably won't help a thing. If it's somewhere between five and six dollars -- which is optimistic, according to some, then a few cents lower isn't exactly what I'd call financialy relief when people are getting desperate NOW. Also, several economic experts, who've written things on Bloomberg -- people with a good reputation and should know what the heck they're talking about have stated that all the math says that it won't help the prices. From what I hear, all your info comes from all the hype coming out of the government and the media. They're selling this idea like it's the best thing since white bread. Like some miracle solution...or at least a miracle short term one. And I really don't think it is.

*winces* Sorry, I'm pretty big on numbers and temperance. You can't conserve and drill, and everything I've seen says it's not gonna work. I'm a betting girl though. I'm willing to see some drilling in another state other than Alaska, maybe with a bigger oil source, and see what that does. And if it does like either of us expect, then that'd be settled. I'm not sure what's going to happen, anyway. I'm usually pretty right about this stuff, I'm told I have a good business sense even though I've no desire to go into economics ^_^' But I can't say if they're going to actually go through with it. Some peple say, "Pfft, it'll never happen"...but I fear that most people are just desperate for an immediate solution, anything, SOMETHING. The more hype there is, the more people make themselves believe in it... Economics is easy because it all depends on the sellers and the consumers. If you can understand them both,then you can predict anything. The numbers just reinforce it. These days, most corporations, companies, you can trust to be greedy. If you've read some of their plans for the future of oil, you see them continuing to raise it BECAUSE the world is in turmoil. Because raising the price is their way of compensating when demand falls in certain areas BECAUSE the prices are high -- this only makes sense in economics, and not any GOOD kind of sense. Yes, oil is a natural thing. But it was never meant to be above ground...it's the leftovers of ancient creatures which no longer exist. But it is finite, we knew this for ages...we had every opportnity to save ourselves from this by working on alternative fuels at our liesure, but instead we didn't do anything. I'm not saying we should wallow in is crap. If our government put those millions we'd spend on drilling into alternative energy, we could probably see it as a reality before 2008 ends. I mean why not? If you look into everything else our government has invested in, and you factor in the fact that there are alot of brilliant underpaid scientists, and that money could speed up the entire process...then alternative fuels could easily be in beta and go to the public. THEN our biggest worry would be keeping the greedy guts from controlling our new fuel and putting safeguards there to keep the business profittable for the businesses and good for the American people as well. On the oil front, we could simply tell all our American oil people to stop selling elsewhere, or choose where we sell...or at least put a temporary price freeze on things with promises of compensation. These have drawbacks as well, but it wouldn't be based on, what quite a few of us believe to be false hope...or at the least something which benefits do not outweigh the costs. There's plenty of things we could be doing to work with this, to, as you say, buy us time. I just don't think energy should be left up in the air when our country's livelihood is completely dependant on it. There's too many things which both of us could be wrong on with this "temporary solution". We need something more tangible. SUCKY as it may be for the businesses themselves, the people are the priorities. If companies can be tried for swindling people out of their lives earnings, then by Goddess more can be done to reign them back under control until we can figure more solutions out so that they can get their freedom again and we can get our security again as well.

Thank you bfarrier1. You have a great night as well.

Absolutely! I love a good "give and take" on an issue. I think it makes everyone involved stronger and more educated on a subject. I would agree with much of what you said concerning the mortgage "crisis". It was poor choice for the most part but it was also naivety. First time home buyers had an opportunity to get into a home where in the past they would not qualify. they were chasing the American Dream without the hard work and financial diligence that is normally required. I also think that there is some blame on the mortgage industry for making money too easy to get. But this is off topic. On January 31, 2006, the average cost of a gallon of gas in the US was $2.13. Today it is over $4.00. That is almost a 100% increase. So the cost of transporting goods has gone up. The cost of farming crops has gone up. The cost of personal transportation has gone up. And they have all gone up significantly. People who spent $50 per week on gas or $200 per month. When gas prices doubled they are now paying $400 per month to get back and forth to work etc. Truckers who spent $1800 per month on fuel are now paying $3600. Airlines that spent $10,000 per trip are now spending $20,000 per trip. Those costs are passed on to the consumer. Already air travel is down, retail spending is down. Travel/vacation spending is down. And we are really just now feeling the pressure of increased fuel costs. As I mentioned in the post above, the mere suggestion that we begin drilling has caused the oil markets to respond. the average cost of a gallon of fuel has come down a bit and the July delivery of oil has moved down as well. And this was simply because of President Bush's support of drilling mentioned the other day. If we let the oil companies spend their profits on oil exploration and drilling, we will see significant improvement at the pump and in the economy before even one drop of oil hits the streets.

Hello Ladyluna, Good to hear from you so quickly. I'm glad you mentioned the tax credit issue. It's a prefect example of a political party pandering to different interest groups. They were trying to keep their special interests happy while also trying to break out with a far-sighted vision. It is really a shame that it happened that way. I am impressed that you signed the petition so early! I saw two cool things this last weekend. I car that runs on compressed air and another than runs on a combination of electricity and gas. Both looked very promising. I also recently heard that someone is working on a generator that is driven by fans embedded into the body of the vehicle. The movement of the car spins the fans and generates electricity that recharges the batteries of an electric car. Sounds like we are making some real progress.

Hello Guardian, As you know, I haven't been here very much lately. And I know that you have not had much time to spend here lately either. So, I consider it 'synchronicity' that I happened to be logged-on when you posted this important, and well-thought out discussion. Just a quick side-note to those who might shy away from signing the petition, so as to protect their personal identity while online: the petition does not make the prior signatories names available. I was pleased to see that when I signed it. Guardian, yes I did see the info on the compressed air car. I couldn't help but think of the old, toy, rubber-band cars and motorcycles that we used to play with when I was a kid. It was just a funny visual that I had when I tried to dimensionally imagine the car. The chuckle was fun, though it doesn't discount the credit that thinking entrepreneurs deserve for 'creating outside of the box'. I only read the briefest snippet about the heat/fan-powered generator. I think it may have been from you, though don't hold me to that. These past couple of weeks have been insanely busy. Anyway, in consideration of my ignorance of the specifics, I'm imagining that the concept is not so unlike the heat-powered fans that are used on woodstoves to better distribute the heat. Am I in the ballpark on the concept?

Good points cynddvs. I had read something recently that supports your points. There are a LOT of things that we use that take enormous amounts of oil to make. Roads, roofing shingles, diapers, tires, anything made of rubber etc etc. You are right that we need to look at all of those things. I am sure there are alternative for shingles and diapers etc.

Thanks for the response theprogrammer. Sorry I have been away from my computer and did not get back to you sooner. You are absolutely right. We run the danger of "forgetting" the situation are reverting back to our old lifestyles as we have done in recent years. Those of us that have been around a few years have seen the swing you mentioned. Remember the Chevette. The American car industries answer to our last fuel crisis. No sooner was the pressure eased, we all went flocked back to buy SUVs. I think that McCain's incentive of $30 million to whoever can break the fuel cell barrier is a move in the right direction.

Hello schneiderman, Thanks for your reply. It is encouraging to see more energy efficient cars on the road. And I absolutely support the development of alternative energy technologies. Give me post another read. I clearly stated that this is not a long term plan, but it will help us get through this period while we develop alternative sources of energy. I also agree that it is market forces that will drive the alternative energy technologies. It always has in this country. And it always will. I think investors have had a wakeup call and they will be jumping on viable businesses that have credible solutions. But, if our gas prices do not come under control soon, our economy will not survive long enough for us to develop those technologies. I don't want to sound the "Doom and Gloom" alarm, but we are beginning to see the price of all our goods that require long distance transport to rise. That is food, clothing, etc. etc. If people can not afford to live and get to work, our economy will collapse. Let me give you an example. I am a financial adviser. I work with people all day trying to map out a financial plan for their future. Often times I encounter people who have these "investment" properties. Now, they call them investment properties, I call them liabilities. Unless something is creating income for you, it is a liability. It is NOT an asset. Assets make you money. Liabilities cost you money. These clients own these homes that are losing them money every month. I am often told that they don't want to sell the house because they want to have it as an asset when they retire. What they don't realize is that the sacrifices that they are making now to retain ownership of that home, is destroying their ability to live comfortably now and also the equity in that home is not earning any interest. If they sold it and reinvested that money into a real investment, one that is going to earn them compounding interest, they would be much better off in the long run. I see that same mentality here. "If we make the sacrifices now, we can force ourselves to make the changes needed for long term oil independence." That sounds good but we are like the clients I jut described. We are simultaneously destroying our current quality of life and also eroding our ability to thrive financially in the future. The answer, in my mind is to get the oil now. Solve the current crisis. But also map out a path to oil independence. I agree completely that we should be a leader in this effort. We have always led and we should now. But if we destroy our economy to do so, we will not be leading anyone, we will be struggling only to survive.