Why wasn't George W. Bush impeached?
By init_towinit
@init_towinit (53)
United States
September 30, 2008 2:29pm CST
Considering the failure in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as the failing economy in the U.S. (along with various other shortcomings), George W. Bush wasn't exactly the president Republicans thought he would be. There's no defending his actions (or Cheney's depending on who YOU think is the REAL president). His two terms as president only led to soaring gas prices, rising unemployment rates, a decrease in education funding - there's no relief in sight. The U.S. democratic government is based on checks and balances or at least that's what they tell you in 4rd grade social science class. So why wasn't he impeached? His track record speaks for itself. Some people say that impeaching George W. would have made the U.S. appear weak to the enemy. But seeing as he and Cheney had similar (if not the same) agenda, would impeaching Bush have done much for the country if Cheney was just going to replace him? If Bush was going to be impeached you'd have to throw Cheney along with him. I want to know what everyone is thinking out there. It seems that people just sit back and let whatever happen.
5 people like this
10 responses
@evanslf (484)
•
30 Sep 08
The reasons you give are not grounds for impeachment as impeachment is when a president is suspected of 'high crimes and misdemeanours'. Simply because a President is incompetent or carries out decisions that prove disastrous are not, on their own , grounds for impeachment.
What would be grounds for impeachment is if you believed that he lied, or effectively lied by twisting facts, to persuade the nation and congress to support his war in Iraq. If you do believe this to be the case, then that would be grounds for impeachment.
I suspect he wasn't impeached though because until Jan 2007 the Republicans controlled the House of Representatives, so impeachment articles were never going to fly. Since then of course, the Dems have been in control but they probably concluded it was not worth the effort to impeach Bush because 1) they remember when the Republicans tried to impeach Clinton, their popularity went down as the public felt this was a distraction, etc, 2) impeachment would almost certainly fail as the Republicans in the Senate would block it (one needs 2/3rds majority in the Senate to convict), 3) Bush is a lame duck president coming to the end of his 2nd term so why bother and 4) if Bush were to be impeached, he would presumably be replaced by Cheney.
3 people like this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
1 Oct 08
He HAS been suspected of 'high crimes and misdemeanors'...lists have been made and presented to Congress, and they don't care. Letting accountability just slide by because 'it's not worth it'...justice isn't worth it...oh joy...
The last part's a pretty good point though, Evan. Everyone's afraid of Cheney.
1 person likes this
@dlbruce85 (110)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Congress never declared War. It was never approved. Certain measures of the war were, but Congress never officially voted for a Declaration of War. It was done by the executive branch.
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Actually alot has come out since the articles of impeachment were presented to Congress a while back. (And I'm glad Kucinich hasn't given up even as we're getting closer to November.)
Like...say, the Pentagon Propaganda program thingy. Which propaganda IS illegal in this country, and there's evidence that suggests that Bush was really involved in that. Well, Cheney too, in fact...
Which is even more solid than Kucinich's presenting of the lies. I mean it's one thing to KNOW he's lied, and it's another to have evidence to suggest that if you investigated you'd get documentation of lies.
I personally am an advocate of prosecution. Since impeachment isn't likely, I'm hoping that as soon as he leaves office everyone takes that as a cue that he's fair game. But I suppose that depends on all that goes on in Congress and everything before now and then. Who's elected President may also make a difference, actually.
Hard questions need to be asked and answered. I refuse to drop this until this is done. Come to think of it, the people may be less disinclined than most of us who've been pondering over this previously though by the end of the year particularly if things continue on like they have been recently.
It is a good point that they went after Clinton for less, but, again...misplaced loyalties, politics, money trails...etc, etc...makes these issues sticky.
We'll just have to see.
2 people like this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
1 Oct 08
"It is a good point that they went after Clinton for less"
They went after Clinton because there was indisputable PROOF that he committed perjury including his own admission of guilt. Liberals want to impeach Bush largely because they don't like the war in Iraq. The fact is that congress voted on it and approved it. If that's worthy of impeachment then maybe Clinton should have been impeached a second time for violating congress and sending our soldiers to war when they voted against it.
2 people like this
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
1 Oct 08
xP, If you think that Bill Clinton was impeached for the Monica scandal Then You are sadly Mistaken.
You should climb out of your pit of spite and read "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" by Ann Coulter. Go ahead with your vitriol about Ann...Bla bla bla Bla...But read the book.
1 person likes this
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
1 Oct 08
"...Clinton should have been impeached a second time for violating congress and sending our soldiers to war when they voted against it."
He also went against the UN. AND was accompanied by Halliburton on a No Bid Contract. Ironicalistic, ain't it?
2 people like this
@RhythmWalker1 (825)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Karen,
At least when Clinton was in office America was NOT
in the shape it's in now! If the truth were to be known,
I'd almost bet that "Many a man has done the same thing
while president". Clinton got framed.
I'd start a rally just to get Bill Clinton back in as president!
2 people like this
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
1 Oct 08
RhythmWalker1, If Clinton had done his job then we wouldn't be in the situation we're in right now. If he had gone after Bin Laden and Al Quaeda then The WTC might still be standing. And If he had not forced banks to give home loans to anyone with a fingerprint and an unemployment check then The Markets wouldn't be where they are now.
I still don't let the 'pubs completely off the hook. They shouldn't have let it happen. But they knew they would be vilified as racists in the press if they tried to stop it.
1 person likes this
@init_towinit (53)
• United States
1 Oct 08
dunebuggy, i totally agree. i'm not blaming bush or saying democrats are better. i just thought it was a good topic for conversation. lol. and it seems to have worked because people have made some really good points on here. but really, i don't see the difference between democrats and republicans. it's the same piece of crap, just a different name. i've never been hopeful during any presidential elections (although i've not been around long enough to see too many) because in the end you're picking the lesser of two evils. the people that run for office have been involved in the political "game" in some way. so i think that taints them. they follow the rules to stay in the game but it's the same rules regardless of your party. i'm not sure that the republican and democratic parties really represent the american people anymore. sometimes i wonder what it would be like to put a person in office that has absolutely no ties to the political system. lindsay lohan for president! and before any drama queens get their panties in a bunch, that was a joke.
1 person likes this
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Bush is definitely NOT the worst prez ever. But I am sick and fre kin tired of hearing about how he lied.
Before you continue this discussion Please watch these three Videos.
Then get back to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwqh4wQPoQk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e4R1tDm1DQ
The second one has a link to Pt.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVnWjcbHkrA
And as for gas prices, The price of gas almost doubled during the first 6 years of Bush's term. Democrats took over the House and did the same thing in 17 MONTHS. Except that THEY did it on purpose!
Now stop wasting people's time.
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Discussing accountability's never wasting people's time, dearie.
I'd like to say that I'm sorry it irritates you so much though.
2 people like this
@dlbruce85 (110)
• United States
1 Oct 08
I do not believe that George Bush is responsible for all of our problems. He has been very erratic and irresponsible. His administration has taken our rights away with the patriot acts, the fisa rulings, the department of homeland security. They have gone against the warnings of our forefathers to avoid entangling alliances, and never strike a country preemptively. These actions are unwarranted and unjustified. Bush and Cheney have committed a crime in that there was substantial support for the fact that hijackers were planning to attack within the U.S. but nothing was done to prevent it. It's all documented and unclassified. They are responsible for this quagmire of an imperialist invasion in Iraq. The first Bush, and Clinton following him, set these actions in motion. Neither of the 3 are solely 100% responsible, they all made their contributions. The truth is we are owned by banks, like it or not. The Federal Reserve Bank bought us in 1913 by persuading Woodrow Wilson to sign in the Federal Reserve Act. This granted the authority to print and control the U.S. dollar to a private, multinational banking corporation. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson warned against these central banks and the corruption they breed. The reason I bring this up is because the Fed Bankers are the people who control the value of are money, the inflation rates, the interest rates, and the financial booms and busts. They do it all in private, no public oversight, no congressional approval. They decide how the market will fluctuate each day, then they feed us the plan. Jefferson shut down the first Central Bank, Andrew Jackson dismantled the second. If we want to be free again, we need a free market. We need to stop this central bank and restore the power of issuing our currency to the congress and make it transparent for the people. Our forefathers would concur with these sentiments. Republican and Democrat are merely terms to describe two versions of the same thing. Obama and McCain both voted against the Constitution with the Patriot Act, The Department of Homeland Security,
and an aggressive preemptive stance against Iran and Pakistan. Bush and Cheney put these things into motion, but the liberals and conservatives supported them. I do blame Bush for a marginal percentage of our current problem, but if the people controlled the money, he wouldn't have been able to bankrupt us by borrowing and inflation. The Federal Reserve Bank is the biggest enemy of our entire system.
1 person likes this
@dlbruce85 (110)
• United States
1 Oct 08
On the taxes issue, I think the more taxes there are, the worse it is on our economy. People should be able to keep the money they earn, and we should limit what government has and can spend. It isn't American for the Federal Reserve to funnel Americans' hard earned money through the IRS and pocket a percentage before you even see your paycheck. The democrats present the idea of socialism, having the goverment tax the rich to provide for the poor, that system is too high maintenance and not realistic in a long term society. The republican alternative to this is not much better though. If government was regulated and had to keep an actual budget like it used to (No taxation without representation, anyone remember that?) then we wouldn't need to pay so many taxes. Most of the schools, roads, hospitals, etc come from local and state tax money. If we kept the federal government in check monetarily, an income tax wouldn't be necessary, meaning everyone would have more money, even at minimum wage that would be an extra $240-$300 a month. That doesnt seem like much to someone on the fortunate side, but believe me not having to pay that income tax would be very helpful for a low-income worker. It should be across the board though, not for any one bracket. More people would have more money to spend, the average worker would have an extra $200-$1000 a month to spend in the market, or paying debts. That makes more since than digging a bigger hole through a bailout, just cut some federal spending, get rid of the income tax. Congressman Ron Paul of Texas presented a realistic, mathematically workable formula to succesfully accomplish this without cutting any necessary programs.
1 person likes this
@oneidmnster (1384)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Most of our problems have been caused by Congress.The members of Congress aren't for the American people.They're for whatever they can get out of there terms.Maybe when people start voting for the best person,instead of by party,some things might get straightened out in this country.Until then,you can't blame one person for the deeds of many.
2 people like this
@dlbruce85 (110)
• United States
1 Oct 08
I completely disagree, our problems are created by the central bank. The Federal Reserve Bank has been pulling the strings since Woodrow Wilson sold us to them in 1913 with the passing of the Federal Reserve Act. Franklin and Jefferson warned us of this very thing. Congress has been lazy, most of them don't read what they sign, or they just don't care. However, the current administration has taken our right to privacy, the right to private property, it has incorporated torture into our interrogation methods, trampled on our right to peaceful assembly and protest, and killed thousands of our soliders and arguably millions of innocent people internationally based on misinformation and lies. This administration has been the single most volatile in our history. Of course, if Congress controlled the issuance of currency, as the constitution dictates, the president couldn't just get every $ he wants from the Fed without the approval of the people. Like I said though, those days were gone with the passing of the Federal Reserve Act. Now the executive branch can have money printed at will, without oversight, without checks and balances. Every time they pull more $, our dollar falls. Our entire government has failed us, we need to read the Constitution and remember what it meant to be free.
1 person likes this
@Zephier (73)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Despite your personal opinions George W. Bush was much more qualified for the job. I could bring up Clinton's failures in Somalia, the Balkans and his initial plans to invade Iraq going back to 1997 or so. The same ones GW and his military officials probably followed in a way.
The only initial reason Bush's impeachment was discussed was not out of what he did concerning Iraq but out of the Democrat's drive for revenge. I remember Democrats discussing impeaching him back in 2002. People like you though have regrettably fallen into the left-wing political game. If Bush would've been impeached then (lol, i wasn't allowed to type his first name due to the vulgarity filter) Cheney would've replaced him despite your "you'd have to throw Cheney along with him". It doesn't work that way and we would've ended up Nancy Pelosi who is a do-nothing and underqualified. The Democrat, after her, is a former KKK member. Which, in my opinion, would be even worse than Nancy.
No one is sitting back letting things happen. It's just that maybe you and the overly-reactionary, televised-media-saturated left are easily swayed to fall for certain words that bring a gleam to your eye. Whether it is hope, change or impeachment. It's not your fault though so no offense.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
1 Oct 08
Because Pelosi and Reid (as much as they want to) can't find any credible evidence to back impeachment procedings. Rumors and "The Bash Bush Bus" aren't enough, you have to actually be able to make a case for impeachment.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
1 Oct 08
The coward made them to an empty chamber knowing that not a single one of them were legitimate. Face it, Prs. Bush didn't break any laws, his only crime was being hated by the press... and those who can't think beyond their hate.
1 person likes this
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
1 Oct 08
AMEN. Thank you ParaTed2K for saying it short and sweet. The truth is there is only hatred and spite behind the BushBash Bowel Movement. Not evidence.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
1 Oct 08
You cannot impeach a president because he happens to be Republican and that is the reason you are impeaching him. Also 911 happened shortly after he became president and whenever there is an attack on American soil or soil where there are lot of Americans present, things have to be done. And they have to be done to prevent an attack. Had George W Bush not acted and invaded Iraq, then they would have considered America weak.
Now supposing the attack came during Clinton's term, and in spite of everything and with the information he got, he would have invaded a country that was behind it, the taxes would have gone up, and people would have suffered, but I am sure you would not have impeached Clinton.
Why? Because he is a Democrat.
You see it is only Republicans who are threatened with impeachment.
@mehale (2200)
• United States
1 Oct 08
Honestly too many people are scared to say anything anymore. The government has so much control over every aspect of our daily lives at this point that people just don't want to face its wrath and stand up against them anymore. We really need to focus on giving some of the control back to the people where it belongs and taking some of the governments power away.
I am not sure that impeaching Bush and putting Cheney in control would have made much of a difference though, they are very similar on most issues and we would probably be in the same shape we are now. We definitely need to make some changes in Washington!
@mikeysmom (2088)
• United States
1 Oct 08
yes he should have been ousted a long time ago. you are right. alot of people just sit back and let things happen in this country and we have to stand up and let our voices be heard. he never should have been president in the first place but look at all the people who voted for him the second time around. makes you wonder what this country is made of. he is the most smug and condescending man i have ever seen.
1 person likes this