Disappointed and NOT A Good Mood....Back To the Drawing Board
By pyewacket
@pyewacket (43903)
United States
November 16, 2008 7:08pm CST
Many of my friends here knew that sometime ago I was working on a grant application, which also meant writing up a grant proposal, career summary, and statement of plans. I had applied for this grant (John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation) for the past three years and never got it, so I've still been persistent and keep applying. The grant application and all the supporting documentation had to be in by September 3rd and I managed to send it off in time. To support my application, one had to also send in other things, in my case, being a photographer a portfolio of my photographic work and the deadline for that was between November 1st to December 15th....I managed to finish it and mailed it out last Thursday.
The whole idea of wanting to get a grant is to further my plans with my on-line photography business I want to establish big time, but obviously I need the money to do that, and not just a few hundred dollars but thousands to really make a go of it as I would also need some back up money to tide me over until things got going.
I've had this idea kicking in my mind ever since I read sellphotos.com by Ron Engh who gives fantastic tips on just how to do this that is setting up an on-line photo business. My first intentions years ago when first applied for the grant was to get money to get a computer system, for back then, when I first applied I didn't even have one, not only that but needed to get a film scanner to transform my film photo images into the digitized format. While I did use the free usage of library computers I was limited in what I could do...so my dream then was to secure money just to get a computer, period. Then when my mother died, with the little money I had left over from her million dollar estate (yeah, right, sure..LOL) I was finally able to get my computer and film scanner.
Well in some ways I now have the means to advance myself with my on-line photo business plans...but not everything. I do have a photo website but would like to upgrade my idea with a better website. There is a perfect photo website host that would have everything to get me going...BUT it's expensive. It would also include that merchant business type account so I could establish a system where people could buy my images directly from my site, put it in their "cart" and pay via credit card or Paypal. And while my website can have the ability for people to buy my images on-line it wouldn't be for the type of licensing I want, that is Rights Managed...in other words they could buy my images at random, without my real permission, and use my images and maybe claim them as their own.. I obviously don't want that.
So the whole idea for me to get a grant was to further my career objectives. There is no way I could get a small business loan, as frankly being on SSI benefits couldn't pay it back...so that's out. Grants are "free' money and wouldn't have to pay back.
Well, yesterday in the mail I got my grant application sent back to me....rejected. This is the first time that has happened to me in the previous times I've applied and can't understand why as I followed the guidelines and really, worked my butt on it to make it a great "presentation" So I'm so disappointed and in a real pissy mood.
Oh well....there's next year..believe me I'm going to try again, and in the meantime hunt around for other legitimate grants available especially for artists/photographers.
Okay to make this a discussion. Have you ever worked your butt off for something, some project and you just KNEW you did a good job at it, then got your project turned down and rejected for what seemed no reason at all?
Who knows maybe the person assigned to read my application had PMS that day....heehee
5 people like this
24 responses
@JulianaRose (378)
• United States
17 Nov 08
there are tons of grants online, try for them all, use a generic application, im a contemporary working artist also, using artistsemerging.com to find contests, jobs, grants, fellowships, etc.
3 people like this
@webeishere (36313)
• United States
17 Nov 08
I just thought about that guy in the commercials
about government money and grants etc.
Maybe try that pye?
HAPPY POSTINGS FROM GRANDPA BOB !!~
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
What's the better link to that artistsemerging.com....couldn't find it
1 person likes this
yup
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
I'm already starting to hunt around for more grant possibilities..I did find one so far...the Aaron Siskind Foundation...the due date is the end of December so have time for it....plan to start working on it this week and get ideas for it
1 person likes this
@teapotmommommerced (10359)
• United States
30 Nov 08
I am so sorry to hear you did not get your grant yet again this year. It makes you wonder who got the grand and why you where turned down.
I think sometimes it can be as little as dotting an I or crossing a T that makes one get the grant and one get turned down.
I myself have never applied for a grant except for going to college and I did not get it. That was several years ago when I was 18. I did read a grant proposal a friend wrote when she applied for a grant for the Collation she was involved in. It had to do with respiratory/or air quality. It has been so many years ago I do not remember the name of the group she was involved in.
Good luck next year. Keep trying.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
1 Dec 08
Well this is the first time they turned down just my application..they didn't even get to see the portfolio I had sent them which I had to send separately and at a different time than the application ..they usually don't make final judgments until May of the next year...I guess I was just unfortunate that I must have gotten someone that read my review that just didn't want to be bothered...maybe the person had PMS that day...LOL
1 person likes this
@teapotmommommerced (10359)
• United States
4 Dec 08
Too bad they are like that. I hope next time someone will take interest in your work. I wonder if they just turned you down automatically because you did not have your portfolio with your application?
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
5 Dec 08
The guidelines for the grant application is one sends in the application and the grant proposal, career summary and so forth by September 3rd, then one sends the portfolio between November 1st to December 15th..so that's exactly what I did. Like I said, think the person that I had the misfortune to get to read it just didn't want to be bothered
1 person likes this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
17 Nov 08
I'm so sorry your proposal was rejected this time, pye ... but your photographs are beautiful, so I know you'll be successful soon. You have certainly worked hard, and deserve recognition. Hopefully there are other grants available you will be able to apply for. You make me ashamed of being so lazy - I would love to finish my novel, but I sit here day after day feeling unmotivated and exhausted and just can't get myself going. Sadly, I can never be accused of 'working my butt off'. I definitely need to lift my game.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
I'm starting to hunt around for more grants...mmmm....yikes talk about writing...I too have a novel that I haven't written in for awhile either..need to definitely get back to it somehow....my problem is lacking time lots of times. I do a lot of writing of articles/reviews, so by the time I'm finished for the day/night I'm braindrained to write in my novel..now only if I had 60 hours in a day to do everything
1 person likes this
@tamarafireheart (15384)
•
17 Nov 08
H pye,
Thank you letting us know whats been going one, I am sorry that you got turned down after all your hard workm never mind, kie you said there is always nest year, yes it done makes you made whe someon on the other end can make your life like crap, still don't give up keep at it, they will give in in the end. The only thing that eve happeded to me after making a good C.V. for the job I wanted, I got rejected, that is all that happened to me.
Bright Blessings.
Tamara
2 people like this
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
21 Dec 08
I think that even applying for a Guggenheim is impressive and thae fact that you are not giving up is even more impressive. You go girl!
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
22 Dec 08
Thank you irisheyes...I worked on another grant just this past Tuesday...the Aaron Siskind Fellowship...it was an 0n-line one which made things easier than mailing everything. Was even able to upload photos directly on the site as my portfolio part
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
17 Nov 08
Yes... I have done that...
I did spend 6 years on an internet project... and could not pull it off.
I did not had the money either... but I don't believe it would have made a difference... even if I had thrown ten of thousand of dollars at it.
At the end of the day... it does not matter how good you are... or how good your product is. It has to be something that people want to buy.
When it comes to your grant...
I think you should spend more time explaining how your project is going to make money... rather than showing them how good your photography is.
There are thousand of photographers like you on the internet... and some have been there for 15 years. You need a name and a reputation to get into the real money.
Same goes with artist painters.
An amateur artist will sell his little landscape... while the professional artist won't be able to sell a thing if he does not have a name and a reputation.
The business world is a very tough world...
And the Internet is the toughest of them all.
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
18 Nov 08
That's life...
It is not about how good you are...
But about who you know.
People are shallow and don't question anything.
If people see you having a cup of coffee with Andy Warhol... they assume that you must be good... otherwise Andy Warhol would not be talking to you. That is the way it works.
In anything to do with the arts... you need to be seen.
Why do you think all those artists never miss a party.
It is all about publicity. That is why they go.
It is the same with movie stars in Hollywood.
They are attending something like the Oscars... but what they are actually doing... is looking for their next film. Scripts are exchanged and contracts discussed.
Nothing is what it seems.
Any successful artist is also a very smart business person.
Look at Madonna... she is the smartest business woman in the music industry.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
Well it's not like I don't have a reputation of a sorts....I've had my photo work published since 1980..one photo on the cover of a magazine years ago was even cited as best magazine of the year. What really amazes me is that all too many people in the art world in general get noticed for artsy totsy, avarnt guarde crap...I've seen some of the work by the photographers who have gotten the grant and their work and it's like...huh? I remember years and years ago some photographer was of note, had a gallery exhibition of her work....which consisted of photos of toilet seat covers....why was she popular? She knew Andy Warhol
@AmbiePam (92872)
• United States
18 Nov 08
I'm sorry Pye. I can't imagine anyone having more talent than you display, nor why they would overlook your work again. I guess this will make it all the more sweeter when you finally do get a grant. My mom toiled for years trying to get a grant for the private school she founded. My dad was working in a church in a very bad part of town. He and my mom started a school right next to the church. They wanted it to be private because they could have more control over the rules. And the public schools in that area had no rules. They were terrible schools, filled with violence and low test scores.
Since the people in the area were poor, she made the tution very cheap, and set up scholarships. She really needed grant money to help keep the school afloat since they were making no profits at all. Finally, after seven years she got a grant. It came with a few stipulations, but it was worth it for the school.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
20 Nov 08
I'm glad to hear your mom kept at it and didn't give up. I was in contact with one winner of the Grant program two years ago, she told me she was trying for grants for ....gasps...fifteen years. sure hope it doesn't take me that long....(sighs)
1 person likes this
@BarBaraPrz (47358)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
17 Nov 08
That's too bad, Pye. Did they include any reason(s) why it was rejected?
1 person likes this
@BarBaraPrz (47358)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
17 Nov 08
Is there no way you could find out why it was rejected? Just so you'd know for next time...
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
Nope..it was one of those "form" type letters so no real reason
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
I plan to write to a fellow photographer I had found on the listing of the winners of last year's grant...been in contact with him before so maybe he could give me pointers. As far as asking them...since they already returned the application to me they might have conveniently forgotten why they rejected it. You have to realize they get thousands and thousands of grant applications, so I think it would be hard for them to remember each one..just might write them though see if it does any good
1 person likes this
@scarlet_woman (23463)
• United States
19 Nov 08
no,i never got rejected,but got uncredited which is just as bad.
appearently,the author decided only the main artist not the colorist of a piece deserved credidation,even though i had to correct errors and in total do more of the work.all the while dealing with a unrealistic deadline for a "free" project.
for the most part,i'm done doing charity art.
@scarlet_woman (23463)
• United States
22 Nov 08
she still hadn't paid you?
omg..i remember you telling me about that.
that sucks.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
22 Nov 08
Nope she still hasn't paid me...think it's a lost cause with her to keep pursuing it
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
20 Nov 08
Mmmm. This is sort of the same deal with me. A year ago, this pet rescuer (who took in some of my kitties) wanted me to make up flyers for her upcoming fund raiser...she TOLD me that she would pay me for my services, and we had a verbal agreement about it. So I knocked myself out doing a really great job of it,and too was under deadline...(jerk waited nearly the last minute to ask me) So did a great job of it, rushed up the printed flyers, using a considerable amount of printing ink from my computer. Did she ever pay me...nope..despite my constantly reminding her. I've since not bothered being in contact with her at all.
I mean if a person says they ARE going to pay for services rendered then they should do exactly that
I mean if a person says they ARE going to pay for services rendered then they should do exactly that1 person likes this
@ellie333 (21016)
•
17 Nov 08
Hi Pyewacket, No wonder you a feeling fed up. Is there anyway you could appeal against the descision because I would try as you obviously could really benefit from this grant. I am so sorry this got rejected after all your hard work. I have never had anything like this rejected so cannot relate to exactly how you must be feeling but do feel for you if that makes sense. Good luck for next year if there is no appeal process. Huggles. Ellie :D
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
I guess I could write a letter to them..or see if I could even email them as that would be faster...I'm not giving up though..I'll keep trying
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
18 Nov 08
I just rattled out a letter to them..sent one as a email to them and included a scanned copy of the form letter they sent me...and will mail a copy by snail mail...luckily I sent copies of my application and other documentation with my photo portfolio
@ellie333 (21016)
•
17 Nov 08
I would write to them and ask for your application to be looked at agian like you said in the original discussion it could have been that the person seeing it had PMT that day. Think of it as a discussion in myLot that hits the top of the friends discussions as soon as there is a new response, write again and get your name remmbered and rise to the top. Your have done the hard graft so now it is time to reap the rewards. You deserve the grant, send the letter knowing in your heart you will recive and it will be made available. Huggles. Ellie :D
1 person likes this
@trickiwoo (2702)
• United States
19 Nov 08
I am so sorry!!!!! I hope you get it next year! And good luck with your photography business!
@Davidarich (985)
• Australia
17 Nov 08
I don't understand. I trhought the Guggenheim Fellowships were granted to support research and artistic creation, not for commrcial ventures. You can't win ine to establish a business. I apologise if I am mistaken, but I am pretty sure that's the case: and you have to be very well established with a major reputation and body of work before they will consider you.
Surely a small business grant or similar scheme is a better way to go. I am sorry t=you feel so let down, but your detrmination to take this forward is admirable. Good luck.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
Well I might not be "famous"...LOL, but I've been in the photo biz for over 25 years and have had a lot of my work published..also I have over 21,000 color images and ovre 15,000 black and white images under my belt..the whole idea of trying for the Guggenheim grant in a sense was to further my creative work
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
18 Nov 08
I happened to have been in contact with one of the winners of the grant last year...a photographer. I invited him to see my work on my website and was very impressed by it. I also happened to contact him last night about this very issue and even he couldn't understand why my application was rejected so fast. In years previous I didn't get a reply about rejection until the following May. Before rejecting my application, the person reviewing my application could have least waited until seeing my portfolio that I only sent out...did email the person and am sending a snail mail letter to him as well.
@Davidarich (985)
• Australia
18 Nov 08
Sure: I've seen your work and you publication credits going back 20 years; but look at the new "Fellows" for 2008 at www.gf.org/newfellow.html ~ you'd hsrly think these professors sand Masters needed the grant! And it still doesn't deal with the core problem: they don't give these out to help establish or build companies.
It isn't a criticism of your photography that they wouldn't offer you a research grant or creative fellowship for a business project.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
Nope, I never actually received the grant yet but the past few years have been applying for it...they do have thousands of applications submitted each year so a lot of us folks are rejected...it's just this is the first time my application was rejected without them actually seeing my portfolio of work yet...I usually don't hear if I've been rejected until May of the next year.
@Kowgirl (3490)
• United States
17 Nov 08
So sorry you got a rejection after all that work. That's why so many never try to get a grant, they just give up after a while. Now you know what some people do when they have a bad day. I will never understand why a person when having a bad day will do whatever they can to make everyone have a bad day right along with them.
Then I wonder if they do that subconsciously or on purpose. I have seen people apply and get the grant with little work and than like you some put their heart and soul into it and still get turned down. It must depend on the person who get to read it first, or maybe the time of day they read it. But maybe if you keep sending it back someone will soon say you deserve the grant for being so persistent. You know what I mean...Wear them down.
Best of luck next time.
Best of luck next time. 1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
18 Nov 08
I just email them and also did a separate letter typed out to send by snail mail...Maybe they might reconsider when they view my photo portfolio which I only sent last Thursday..with it I just HAPPENED to send copies of all that documentation and a copy of the application....so who knows? In the meantime I'm looking up other possibilities
@gemini_rose (16264)
•
17 Nov 08
I am so sorry to hear that it has been rejected that must be a real disappointment to you. It sounds like you have a real good little business venture there as well, but the thing with burning ambition is that you will not give up and you will get there eventually. I really think that you will and you will succeed I am just sorry that they turned you down this time. I have not been in that situation so I do not know how it feels and yes they probably did have pms the meanies.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
Thank you gemini...yes I've always had a burning ambition to succeed..guess I just need patience that things will fall in place for me eventually. and yes...they must have had PMS...LOL
@redkathy (3374)
• United States
17 Nov 08
Absolutely and it sucks! One time I had to quote an entire project. It was 18 models with each having it's own set of options. These were drawn separately and I had to match them to the standard plans in order to quote them. The contractor wanted everything itemized, including unit costs. we had four days to do this and then had a 20 minute meeting to project the how's when's and what if's of new construction. We had been working for this company for at least eight years. Well needless to say, we didn't get the work! I was so pissed. I was willing to match budget even, which they totally disregarded. In the past, matching budget combine with our work quality had been a plus to my bid process, and won us many bids. The meeting is what blew it because these people had no idea about building in our area, they had flown in from the corporate office. The guy who was the biggest company, who produced the worst quality got the job. Live and learn I guess.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
18 Nov 08
Mmmm, makes you wonder if the other guy who did get the job paid people off to get the job..LOL. Sure sounds like you did an awful lot of work for that project and yes must have been a tremendous letdown, especially when the other person got it, who was an obvious jerk.
@dreamweaverjan (3471)
• United States
17 Nov 08
{{Pye honey}} that is just awful! How dare they?? Sounds to me like they
didn't even look at this time, just slapped the "reject" on it;
I know you will keep searching for ways to get this up off the ground, I've
seen some of your photo's and they are just BEAUTIFUL!! Many Congrats too
on those that have been published!!
Wow you are a brilliant author, and a photographer, what else do you do so well
Pye? You just are an amazing woman and I am honored to know you;
Take a few days off from it all, and then start in again I am sure you will
be the winner in the long run and your business will be a huge success!!
Love & hugs to you darlin!!!
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
18 Nov 08
Seems that way doesn't it, that the person just didn't want to bother with my work...maybe having a bad day or something?? I'll keep plugging though...I found another possible grant to apply for. I'm not giving up....LOL
@bmk188 (55)
• United States
17 Nov 08
So sorry to hear about all your aggravation with the grant, and I do understand it. It is hard when you put your heart and soul into something you really want and then have it rejected. I feel for you.
I am a freelance writer and if there is ever an occupation pitted with pitfalls and rejections this is certainly one of them. Publishers are not kind or eager to publish. I have a book I have been trying to get published for a very long time. It has a good story line, but publishers are just not looking for that type of story they keep telling me. Yet, a creative writing professor has told me that it is one of the best stories he has ever read.
How do I handle it. I just keep trying and like you I refuse to give up. I am re-writing a portion of the book because I did decide to change a few things, but come next year, after it is read by my professor friend, it will be sent out again to as many publishers as possible and we will try again.
Dreams are important. You can't give up on them. Keep fighting and I will be waiting on the post that says you got the grant. Good luck to you.
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
17 Nov 08
Actually I'm used to rejections..LOL. I've been in the photo biz since 1980 and had my share of rejected work sent back to me if my photos didn't fit their needs, yet I've also had scores of photos published on covers of magazines. I'm also a writer...have had a few short stories published, but a lot rejected.
I too have some novels in the works and naturally hope to be published one day. Do you have an agent? I hear it's nearly impossible to get a mainstream publisher interested in one's work unless you have a literary agent representation
Glad to hear you're not giving up....neither am I!
