Do you accept cultural forbidding the discussion of Politics & Religion?
By SteveSlaton
@SteveSlaton (552)
United States
June 18, 2009 10:19pm CST
If you are truly free, then the answer should be "no."
If your answer is "yes," what are you afraid of?
11 responses
@Troublegum (641)
• United States
19 Jun 09
Here in the us, we have a culture of name calling. There are a lot of topics here that earn you derogatory lables if you take a certian side. Usually these are things were the things where if you study the data, the truth is very harsh and people don't want to beleive them becase it just isn't nice, so we call people who talk facts freely names to deter them from speaking freely, and odly enough it works quite well.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
20 Jun 09
It works well for whom? Name calling in the written form is libel. With true freedom comes also being responsible for one's actions.
A lot of this anonymous "culture" on the web needs to stop. Personally, my-Lot handle is SteveSlaton and guess what? I am Steve Slaton of Fort Collins, Colorado, USA. I take responsiblity for what I say and write.
I mostly agree with your views except I think our system works quite poorly. It only works well for the powerful.
@Troublegum (641)
• United States
21 Jun 09
The number of times I have heard people called racist because of one policy or another is astounding. It works quite well to silence a point of view rather than have the debate. Here are four examples with real consequences.
1: COnfirmation of Sonya Sotomayer, There has been more focus on her seemingly racist comment than her actually decisions. If we focused on actual rulings we would have a better idea of if she would be good for our country or not.
2: Immigration: People who advocate closed border policies are often labled as racist and the debate ends up being termed anti-hispanic rather than an issue of security
3: Reform of the lending system (fannie/freddie) A number of years ago (long before the whole thing blew up) It was forcasted that the current system would explode because the government was pressuring the banks to lend to people who were unlikely to be able to repay the loans. The proposal to allow banks to make their own assesment was labled as racist becuase it was assumed that limiting lending to low income people would affect minoritys disporportionately. The proposal would have of course saved us from the recent financial mess, but because people were so afraid of offending people and limiting loans to the lower classes we continued to make the loans
4: The whole affimitive action debate- both sides spend more time calling eachother racist than looking at statistics.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
22 Jun 09
On your four points, honestly I have not closely followed Sonya Sotomayer's nomination hearings, etc. Reverse racism claims, as far as I am concerned are still racist.
Personally, I am a Caucasian, male, mostly European descended American apologist. As a demographical group I belong to the wealthiest, highest paid, most powerful group on Earth all through making bullying legal.
An early USA Libertarian Party principle was to minimize government with the vision of a World without borders. I think that way.
The main reason, as I see it, for people to want to emigrate legally or illegally to the USA is because there is so much money here compared to peoples' homelands that they are fleeing. It IS a desperate move to give up all that makes up home: family, friends, community, geography, climate. Part of the emigration/immigration debate should be: what can we do to transform the world where people are free everywhere to develop to their potential.
While some racism is still stupid, ignorant, and blatant like that recent red-neck murder in D.C., overall racism is getting smarter... Which mean vigilance, courage, and tenacity needs to be the rely.
Choose your battles. I've spent much of my activist periods in my life "reacting." Those in power have chewed up and spit out some many activists who were reactionaries. I suggest to people to get a clear vision, be proactive for it, which is a positive energy way of living, and accept what progress you can make.
How's that?
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
19 Jun 09
In my opinion they are perhaps two of the most important subjects to be discussed. One is concerning how we are governed from without and the other is about how we are governed from within.
I do think that since both subjects are very emotional...people who cannot be respectful should not participate until they learn respect for fellow human beings.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
20 Jun 09
Excellent! Nice metaphors.
Think about all these "talk" shows that have people being uncivil, not allowing a person to finish a thought, rudely interrupting, and shouting each other down.
No wonder most of our kids are growing up without manners.
We have a bullying culture that favor bullies. Right?
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
20 Jun 09
This is true..and it is my opinion that it doesn't take much brains or intellect to call someone a name...especially a dirty one.
We do live in a culture that favors bullies..we even elect them to office. :)
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
20 Jun 09
Hey Steve..guess what? My real name is Debra K. Carey...lol Never did see the need to hide my real self.
@mimpi1911 (25464)
• India
22 Jun 09
Hi Steve!
Politics and religion, I feel, are both very sensitive topics for we all are very much emotional and very much passionate about both. And let's face it - we can less tolerant as to these. I have been a part of some hate speeches and extreme intolerant deportment earlier on, when i just started off here. I learned one thing, I better refrain from both. I am not a visionary and i come here to have fun and let go. So, I generally avoid both the topics.
My friend Santuccie, has virtually stopped coming here for the same reason. The scathing censures were perhaps too much and I respect his feelings.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
22 Jun 09
Thank you for the input. We are My-lot friends & I just checked your page that says you are a 34 year old female from India. I can and do appreciate the need to be entertained and unwind.
One does not have to allow another person's words or actions of anger escalate into you yourself being angry. One can choose to deescalate relations and be a calming presence.
India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh owe their National States to the wise, non-violent, loving leadership of Mahatma Gandhi whom I have studied a bit.
Yet India and Pakistan "relations" are a simmering state of Hate!
Think about this: Who benefits from this mutual hate?
The test of freedom is not majority rule. The test is how majorities treat the weak, the helpless, and their minorities.
The British were not even gone from India and the Hindu and Muslim civil war erupted. (I actually do not know if your history labeled these events as a Civil War...) The result was most surviving northern Hindus heading South and most surviving Muslims heading North and India splitting.
Now citizens of both countries are not really very free by the standard I just proposed.
Think and teach love,
not hate.
Choose to relate,
not retaliate.
Stop!
Before it's too late,
I pray.
Life is a test.
Be blessed.
Take care.
Your friend,
Steve Slaton
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA, Mother Earth
@emmanola (482)
•
27 Jun 09
The culture forbidden discussion of politics and religion is merely an assumption and not a law. To the best of my knowledge, true secular states don't have law banning people from discussing either topics.
For me, whether the answer is yes or no depends on the situation. I know that those topics are "forbidden" areas as far as job interviews are concerned. Beyond that, the topics are sensitive and one may be "looking for trouble" if one tries to discuss religion or politics with "wrong" persons.
Personally, I feel there is no life in religion; just a set of dogma that don't necessarily make the adherents better persons. Many just hold on to the outward forms of religion for without practicalizing the good their faith teaches. It's a bit easier to discuss politics in very democratic societies where people are free to disagree and agree and still see eye to eye. In some countries, however, politics is a do or die affair and any criticism based on politics may not be positively received and may even be potentially dangerous.
@syankee525 (6261)
• United States
19 Jun 09
yeah lot of people or even countries forbid for people to speak about it, i am always told i shouldnt speak how i fee about either of them, but i still do and i still get people mad at me. but they say the truth hurts
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
20 Jun 09
Many of the "people" who get angry at me are really "sheeple."
Sheeple would rather believe the lies that wolves tell them, keep their heads down grazing, until...
Well we all know what happens to sheep. The lucky ones are only sheared.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
21 Jun 09
Any their deaths are blamed on their behavior often times...
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
21 Jun 09
And then you have the sacrificial lamb...the one that's expendable and no one cares if it's killed.
@nraisor (59)
• United States
21 Jun 09
I don't believe that any topic should be forbidden. Not only does it signify that we are not free but it also leaves no room for change. These two subjects are rarely discussed without the situation spiraling out of control for one reason and one reason only. Everyone thinks that they are right. So instead of being willing to 1. Explain their point of view to the fullest and accept that even they might be shrugged and 2. Open our mind to the possibility that we might be wrong, not fully informed, or that the person might have legitimate point, we label the subjects as taboo.
I think that it is ridiculous. So not every person in this world has the same opinion as me, big deal. We are all entitled to our own opinions. But we should be mature enough to sit down and discuss these topics like adults. The divisions in this country have been caused by peoples absolute refusal to do just that and it will only continue to get worse if we don't get over ourselves. How do we expect to solve anything when there are things we refuse to discuss? How will anything change? How do we expect to tech younger generations to learn from our mistakes, when we are not willing to accept and own up to them?
I have no problem saying what I think or feel, and accepting the responsibility of doing so. What this world needs is more maturity, open-mindedness, accountability, and an overhaul of its communication skills.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
21 Jun 09
All good points. By and large I agree with you.
The hardest behavior to tolerate is intolerance.
Also, the biggest reason we live in a crazy world is that the powerful ARE crazy! Most of the bullying and intimidation is sick.
And bullying people into being afraid to discuss ANY topic should be suspect, me thinks.
Thanks.
@cobrateacher (8432)
• United States
21 Jun 09
Hi, Steve!
I never thought this was serious. These topics are almost as unavoidable as the weather. I do think we adjust our participation in such discussions according to whom we are with, or the situation we're in. But shy away from these topics? No way!
@Jimeous (858)
• New Zealand
22 Jun 09
Absolutely, if you are as you say "truly" free then a culture should be able to forbid discussion on whatever they want as long as it is within the laws of that country.
I view it in the same way as families or institutions which forbid the discussions of politics and religion.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
22 Jun 09
Agreed.
Family bullying is more personal but still should no be tolerated. Likewise if a family member of mine behaves as a sexist, bigot, or racist I call them on it. Some of my family shuns me and that's their problem. Saves me wasting my time on lost causes...
Some of my family are sane and we're close.
Thank you.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
19 Jun 09
The religious discussions always end in turmoil and people being upset. Just too much hassle. So I avoid religious discussions normally. enough stress in my life wihtout inviting more!
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
20 Jun 09
I understand. If you do get cornered by somebody pushy (like me) and I tell you my views of God and politics, you could try saying or writing:
Let's move on by agreeing to disagree.
Try it. This sentence has been one of civility that deescalates tense situations for a long, long time.
@connierebel (1557)
• United States
19 Jun 09
I vote no. If we really have freedom of speech, than the whole "politically correct" thing is a bunch of garbage. We should be able to discuss politics and religion no matter what side we're on, without fear of bad labels being attached. If someone doesn't like it, they can just not listen.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
20 Jun 09
Well said. I have interrupted a number of people in my day and said I have the freedom not to listen to you, so go away.
@jb78000 (15139)
•
19 Jun 09
in certain situations it seems polite to keep away from politics and religion, i also know a number of people that i get on well with if we don't talk politics so i avoid the subject with them too. it's not weakness, it's just trying not to stir up too much discord. if someone says something that i really disagree with though i always jump in.
@SteveSlaton (552)
• United States
20 Jun 09
When it comes to religion, I generally practice as you do, except... When people try to impose their religious beliefs into secular law I take no prisoners.