Would you rather be kept alive by a machine or go when you believe it's time?
By spalladino
@spalladino (17891)
United States
July 23, 2009 8:51am CST
There's a discussion on this board regarding the "end of life counseling" that is in Obama's healtcare bill which has been twisted to make it appear that the elderly will be encouraged to simply "die". I don't know how one can just up and die for no reason...and I saw nothing when I took the time to read the bill that indicated that the government or any medical professional was going to make this decision for the patient.
What I did read was that there will be DISCUSSIONS regarding the issue of the end of one's life with the patient provided with information about resources, legal documents that protect their wishes, the ability to assign medical proxy to a friend or family member and a standard whereby the patient's wishes will be followed across many medical care platforms, including Emergency Rooms, hospitals, long term care and nursing facilities. This counseling will result in more elderly patients having legal documents that indicate their personal wishes. This is nothing new. When I volunteered with our local Rescue Squad for a short period of time I rode along to a home where the patient had a DNR (do not resusitate) order and we were bound by that.
Since this bill leaves these decisions up to the patient there will be those who will choose to be kept alive by any means possible for as long as possible, those who will choose limited medical intervention and support depending on the situation and those who will simply choose to go when their body says it's time to go.
So, what are your thoughts about this? Do you have a living will? Would you want to be kept alive with a machine breathing for you, pumping your blood and providing nutrition through a feeding tube? Do you want you family members to be saddled with the responsibility of making heartbreaking decisions on your behalf when you can legally do it yourself?
10 people like this
26 responses
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
24 Jul 09
Oh oh, jb, spelling trouble? We'd better test you. If you can read the following words you're okay:
cat
dog
sphygmomanometer
How'd ya like that last one? 
1 person likes this
@PSmith721 (286)
• United States
23 Jul 09
I have made my desire very clear with all that could have to make that decision. I do not want to be on some very expensive machine for any length of time! Just let me go. I want to be with my Lord and I will wait there for all my loved ones!
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
24 Jul 09
Same here PSmith. I also have a living will because, when the time comes, I don't want any of my loved ones to have to make the decision to pull the plug.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
23 Jul 09
Absolutely, I want to GO when my time is up! I've heard some of these fear-mongering statements and seen the discussions as well and I'm so glad you started this thread! My daughter worked for many years as a CNA in several different nursing homes and this was an important issue. There were many residents who either had living wills or had made it clear to family members that they did not wish to be kept alive by machines but when the time came they hadn't given the living will to the nursing home or the relative wasn't available to say what their wishes had been. Once someone is put on life support it's not such a simple matter to "pull the plug" even if the patient had expressed wishes to not be kept alive by artificial means. There should definitely be something in place so all medical professionals have the means to get this information about their patients. Another thing that happens frequently in the nursing homes is that someone will be transported to a hospital and once there it's often not known if the patient is DNR or whatever.
My mother, who passed away last November, had a living will plus she had made it very clear to all of us who were close to her that she did NOT want to be kept alive by a machine. I really appreciated that she took that responsibility away from me because that's a decision I wouldn't want to have to make for anyone!
Annie
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
26 Jul 09
anniepa, you are right about this one thing, it is currently not so simple to pull the plug without one. Which is why the push to make sure even young people have a living will and healthcare proxy. The nursing homes where I live are fighting for a new law that would require ALL people admitted to a nursing facility to have a living will, Durable power of attorney and/or DNR.
The documentation that I am familiar with is a little more thourough. Any time a patient is transported to hospital a copy of his legal papers go with them, if they are not with them..the hospital calls right away and someone is in trouble, I know...I was once the one who had to get the documents in order to send. Nurses have been written up where I work for leaving them out of transport documents. The ambulance drivers are suppose to ask for and check if they are there before leaving the nursing home. I've worked in medical records in the past and been the one who had to get the many documents ready for transport.
It is not 'fear mongering' to speak of what is actually going on. I feel, personally the more I know, the less fear I feel.
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
23 Jul 09
It starts this way and actually, all of these options are available to the elderly right now. There is no need to add a special section to the bill to allow such things as living wills and DNRs. Most already have a family member who acts as the health proxy.
But it won't remain this way. In the Netherlands, they eventually gave doctors the right to decide on "quality of life" for elderly patients in hospitals and to euthanize based on those decisions. The result is that the elderly are afraid to go to hospital for any reason and get less health care rather than more. Why would you go to a hospital when you know that some doctor can decide you never get to leave again?
I don't believe that this is not the beginning of a much larger objective. If you want to lower health care costs but give that care to more people, you are going to have to cut somewhere. I do believe it will be services to the elderly, with the idea that a young life is more worthy of the expense it takes to save it.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
24 Jul 09
If this were true then why educate the elderly about advance directives and living wills? Why even put it in the bill where it would be law? A doctor cannot override a law, can he?
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
23 Jul 09
I do not want to live on machines, if I am unable to eat or breath on my own, I don't want to live. I think that it's great that the bill would cover this type of thing because my grandfather had a DNR and the hospital took for granite that meant that he didn't want his insulin so they let him slip into a coma and die.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
24 Jul 09
That's terrible Zeph, that is in no way what a DNR is for! I agree with you about living on a machine...unless it was temporary and there was a real chance that I would recover.
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
26 Jul 09
That's interesting, about 10 years ago, I worked at a nursing home and we were all suppose to run when someone flatlined. I'm sure that there are bad homes out there (like yours) and there are good homes.
@olydove (1209)
• United States
26 Jul 09
debrak you need to write a blog or book about what you have witnessed. People need to know what their future holds. If you're worried about the effects it could have on you then write it anonymously but this stuff needs to be known. I had no clue about this type of behavior and I am glad that I will never put my mother in a home regardless. Thank you for sharing this information, and please do consider writing some sort of blog about your experiences in your occupation.
@foursox212 (282)
• United States
23 Jul 09
Lets be honest, under Obama care, do any of us really think no matter what our wishes are the Fed's and czars are going to allow money spent on keeping any of us alive on a machine for any amount of time when you got all those sick illegals out there waiting to vote democrat???
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
26 Jul 09
What's really scary is on another discussion here I read that the Science Czar on the Federal payroll...(forgot his name) has gone on record as saying that up until TWO YEARS old a child has not developed 'free will' therefore IT is not a human being and if necessary can be KILLED! And our dip shyte congress ok his appointment! These are the people 'advising' Mr. Obama. Are you scared yet?
I've yet to investigate this...but I think honestly...I'm a little afraid it will be true!
@fec139 (810)
• United States
30 Jul 09
I have been forced to think about this because I have ALS/Lou Gehrig's Disease and people with this disease eventually die of respiratory failure. Then, we have to make the decision to die or to have a tracheotomy and be hooked up to a ventilator to help us breathe. For me, the ventilator life is not a practical one, since it is very expensive and I have no family to take care of me. So I would have to live in a nursing home, which does not mean quality of life in my opinion. But for people who have small children, they want to be around to watch them grow up. A lot of people have good quality of life on vents. I know this is not an option for patients in the UK where they have government health care. They figure over there that ALS patients are going to die anyway, so why bother prolonging a life of paralysis. i would guess that there would be the same restrictions on chronically ill and elderly people in the US if we have a national health care system.
@anneshirley (1516)
• Philippines
23 Jul 09
Given that I am nearly dying and machine can keep me alive, I won't agree with it. What is life if you are just machine supported? I'd rather die simple and ease my family of burden financially, emotionally and physically. I've always wanted to die in a simple way. I don't want to get sick and let my parents or family take care of me. If I am going to die, I want it to be un-ceremonious and fast.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
24 Jul 09
Same here. My husband lost his late wife to liver cancer. She chose to die at home instead of being in a hospital where her life could have been extended for a little while with the aide of machines. She felt the extra days weren't worth lengthening the pain her family was feeling.
@eichs1 (1934)
• Philippines
25 Jul 09
I don't want to be living and not alive at all. What for? To burden my family or love ones? I really can't see a reason why I should subject any people to agonizing moments of deciding and feeling the guilt all throughout their life.
I guess I have to think of writing a will soon. That in case I have to live only through machines, I'd rather that they should let me leave this world and have other parts of my body to be donated and used by other people if ever possible.
@happy6162 (3001)
• United States
25 Jul 09
i would not want to be put on a breathing machine or be fed by a feeding tube just to keep me alive. when my time comes then i want to be let go. it is alway hard on the love ones but they usually know in their heart that their family member is in a better place and are not suffering anymore.
I want to alive comfortable if i have alive by the machine i don't want it.I only want to die by never paining before i will die.
@aschip (166)
• India
24 Jul 09
I dont know about that.
When I will be in that situation my response might be , umm I think mostly be, different than what I say today.
When I my stomach is upset I feel the worst pain in the world is stomach pain but then same thing I say when my tooth hurts. So it depends you know, maybe in that situation if I dont feel any pain but am living off machines, I might not mind as long as I have money.
I would never give anyone the authority to make the decision for me, and if its mandatory for you to give a person's name I would write "Santa" !
@fairyvinie (17)
• China
24 Jul 09
i don't know , in fact.
sometimes a person's mind can be confused when he thinks too much of a thing.
the situation you said is probably one thing like this, yeah , i think my time comes ,but who knows that...perhaps after thinking carefully , i'll change my mind.
and at that time , i'll never understand this , after ten years or what , i start to see some things , so i don't know the answer actually.
but it's a good discussion , causing lot of people to think .
@tjades (3591)
• Jamaica
24 Jul 09
I would want my life to come to a naturalend. No machines and endless medication. There are cases such as an accident and coma which may warrant a different approach. Other than that... Forget life support. I want toenjoylife and then leave this earth fulfilled. How would hanging on through a machine accomplish or add to my happiness or usefulness to the human race?
Naaaaw... let me go in peace.
@Barbietre (1438)
• United States
23 Jul 09
Unless there is no REAL hope I will be okay, then I say no tubes.But if it just a temporary thing and I will have my cognitive abilities after, then ok, but only if my life will be worth living.
@paula27661 (15811)
• Australia
24 Jul 09
I feel that while there is life there is hope. For me it would depend on timing. If (heaven forbid) something like that happened to me now I would appreciate being kept alive as long as possible until all options are exhausted including future discoveries etc because right now I have a young child who needs me as well as my beloved pets. It does depend, it is not a black and white issue, I think my family would know when the hope was gone, until then I would like every fighting chance!
@tundeemma (894)
• South Africa
24 Jul 09
i don't think i can survive the pains of depending on a life machine for survival hence i would rather ask that the machine be switched off instead of going through everyday pains, i do believe in staying alive healthy and not staying alive without a good state of health
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
24 Jul 09
My father had spelled out his wishes..when the time came he changed his mind. He initially didn't want a vent put in...as he was gasping for his breath, he asked for one to be put in. I can't help but wonder if his family hadn't been there to stand up for his change of mind...would it have mattered?
Most people live in a fantasy world of ER and Dr. Welby...don't fool yourselves.
And I work in healthcare...never forget that doctors and nurses are HUMAN, and you should be ok.
@kalpal2003 (90)
• United States
23 Jul 09
I would prefer to not be kept alive on a machine. To me being able to make the legal choice for myself and prevent any member of my family from having to make that difficult decision is great. I can't even imagine how hard it would be to decide that someone in your family, someone you love, should have to die. Simply by not having a machine keep them alive. While people may not agree with the choice, I think that by making it myself before anything could happen to put me in that situation would save my parents and the rest of my family from guilt of 'what could have happened.' If that makes sense.
