To Tip or Not To Tip...That Is The Question???

I agree tamara!!! It took some idiot to have a customer arrested for refusing to pay the tip part of the bill. I wonder where the manager was during ALL this??? If the bartender was the manager, I feel he should be fired. There are MANY different ways this situation could have been handled!!! NONE of which end in the customer being arrested. First & foremost, the manager or person in charge at the moment should have offered an alternative solution & if the customer didn't like that just written off the gratuity. The customer is the ONLY one with the right to decide where their money goes. According to the customer, they received the worst possible service there is. The restaurant has not even bothered to deny any of the charges. I'm sure part of the frustration had to do with the hour wait for their food. Therefore, I feel the restaurant is partially responsible for the initial problem & the feelings by the customer they received lousy service!!! That part of the lousy service had NOTHING to do with the waitress!!! So, the manager could have negotiated a 10% gratuity & offered a free dinner for the hosts of the dinner party. Of course, having to get their own silverware & drinks would probably have caused them to refuse that offer. So, the ONLY viable offer would be to just drop the 18% tag on & wish them a good evening. More than likely they would have come back to eat again after waiting for a cooling off period. Now 8 people will NEVER be back over $16. The waitress could have made that up later & also proven her worth at the same time. It would take an idiot to put an inexperienced waitress on a large table, so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt as to her abilities. As far as I'm concerned, the owner needs to close down now & cut his losses!!!

Nothing I've heard or read indicated if it was listed on the menu. Most restaurants here have adopted this policy. I seldom have a large party to worry about. However, if I do, I speak with the manager first making it clear that I will happily pay the required gratuity plus possibly more if I receive the service. If not, I will only pay the required tab. I've NEVER had to refuse to pay my bill. I also don't take a large group into a restaurant during peak hours either without making prior arrangements. I'm not saying this group wasn't partially at fault. I'm just saying they did NOT deserve to be arrested for refusing to leave a tip for unsatisfactory service!!! The more we all discuss this, the more I see that it was inappropriate managerial functions that created most of this. It is very disruptive to have a table of 8 walk in during peak hours. Maybe 2 waitresses needed to be put on the table. As the manager, once the guests were seen getting up to get their own silverware, they would NOT have had to get their own drinks. The manager should have stepped in to pick up the slack. The bartender should NOT have been the one to call the police. The manager should have been there to offer a free dinner to the head of the party to smooth things over. I understand why the automatic gratuity is in place, but I feel it should be negotiable if the service was lousy...Taking it on a case by case basis!!!

P.S. Sorry for the double post hitch as the broadband connection just skipped a beat here.

Either the owner or the manager should be fired!!! If it's the owner's policy to have customers arrested, then he should just close down. If the manager didn't do his job, he should go!!! I can't blame it on the waitress. Did the waitress earn her tip??? OH HELL NOOOOOO!!! Was it the waitress fault??? OH HELL NOOOOOO!!!! The manager should have made sure the customers were waited on. The very first time I was hit with a large table, my manager came out to help me. He knew I was doing the best I could do at the time, but was overwhelmed. He only helped long enough for me to get it back under control & then he stepped back out. It was good customer service & it made me happy as I earned the tip. Had the manager there stepped in, everybody would have been happy!!!

It's OK, I had problems too. When I replied to you, it posted to the person above. So I reposted here!!!

When tipping first started here, it was an effective tool. Servers did attempt to give better service in order to get a tip. Recently, it is assumed that a guest should tip regardless of the service. I FIRMLY DISAGREE WITH THAT!!! If I don't get good service, I shouldn't have to pay extra. That's like telling an employer that they HAVE to give bonuses to inadequate workers. Tips, much like bonuses, are a reward for GOOD/GREAT work!!! When I worked as a waitress, I earned $1.00 an hour. My pay was contingent on tips, so I worked hard to give quality service. Then the law was passed that servers had to be paid minimum wage & tips were in addition to that. At that point, I saw a big difference in the quality of service. The kids nowdays just don't put the pride in their work as once was given. NO, it's NOT ALL young people, but it is a large proportion of them. I always went into work 2 hours before the doors opened & I NEVER allowed the doors to open where I worked without ALL my tables being set with the silverware in place. ALL condiments were filled so it was during the slow part of the day that I had to worry about replacing them. My garden salads were made & kept in the cooler so I only had to walk in & grab one, add the croutons, & take it to the table. I always took the drink order first & then the food order so they had at a minimum something to help occupy their attention while the food was cooking. If I noticed the cook getting behind, I assisted in fixing the part of the plate that I could help with. I was lucky as I had a GREAT cook at the places where I worked. A bad cook can ruin a GREAT waitress!!! After working as a waitress, I learned how HARD that job is & learned how to distinguish good service from lousy service from GREAT service. It appears the the GST works in your part of the world, but I don't think it would work here, Hell, it's not working with tipping according to service given. It seems the younger generation thinks everybody OWES them for whatever they do....no matter how good or bad!!! If I go into a new restaurant, I look for the oldest server there & ask to be put in their station. I frequent one restaurant where an 80 year old waitress can out serve the 20 year olds by 4 to 1.

I should add that, if we pay for any other service, like service to our cars or anything like that, we would not pay if we did not receive that service, right? If the service was poor and done very sub-standard, we would not want to pay for that service, either.

I'm going to do my best to follow this one to the end. If it does go to court, I'd insist on a jury of my peers as I'm sure every one of them would have had a similar experience & not as well versed in what the law states!!! If this was a high dollar restaurant that was particular about the servers they hire, I might could see it...but according to their prices, they're NOT. $10.00 per person is barely a fast food stand price. Hardees, Mickey D's & BK do NOT charge extra for large tables. Yes, they don't wait on you, but neither did the waitress at the restaurant. I agree she deserved a small tip, but 18% to do NOTHING is outrageous!!! If I were the manager, I would have suggested a greatly reduced amount for the gratuity & offered a free meal. I would have NEVER had my customers arrested!!! It's NOT like the money was going to the restaurant, it was going to the waitress who was NOT doing her job. It seems to me the manager wasn't doing his job either or he would have seen the customers taking care of themselves & made sure they were taken care of. Poor service on top of slow food would test the patience of most folk!!! I will be SHOCKED if this ever even goes to court!!!

They paid for what they ate. They just refused to pay the $16.00 gratuity that was automatically added to the bill. If they had refused to pay the entire bill, I would say send them to jail, but they didn't. They refused to pay for the service they said they didn't receive. I feel the manager allowed this to be handled totally inappropriately!!! If they had only waited for an hour for the food & were served properly, I'd say they were wrong. The inability to serve them properly is what I'm basing my thoughts on. It is NEVER good to have a customer arrested on the premises. It will be just as hard for the restaurant to prove they didn't wait an hour, but I still don't see that as the major point. Their food was set in front of them & the server walked off. No drink was ever brought. No utensils were ever offered. I don't call that service!!! Had I been the server, I would have been appalled with myself. What did the server do to earn the $16.00??? That's being paid $2.00 to place a plate in front of the person. Had I been the manager, I would have gotten the drinks & silverware myself & sent the server home for the night.

I think a LOT of people will think twice before going there to eat!!! The hour wait probably wasn't the waitress' fault!!! I'm sure they've had a lot of customers leave simply because the wait time is sooooooo long!!! If the waitress didn't want to serve the drinks, she could have filled a couple of pitchers & sat some empty glasses on the table. If the manager was worth anything, he would have gotten the silverware & drinks for them until he could get somebody to fill in. If the one waitress was having that much trouble, he should have pulled a second waitress to assist or fill in himself!!! To allow ANY customer be arrested is ridiculous!!!

A manager was NEVER mentioned in any of this!!! You'd think the bartender would have called the manager instead of the cops when he realized he was having a very dissatisfied customer. You'd think the manager would have noticed that customers were having to get up & get their own silverware & drinks. You'd think a manager would have stepped in either before or after the cops arrived to clear up the situation. If there was a manager on duty, he was WORSE than the waitress!!! It seems that currently the wait staff thinks they are OWED their tip whether they do any serving or not. I saw one particularly bad waitress who was left a nickel for her tip. She followed the man to the door & threw the nickel at him screaming obscenities at him. I had seen her lack of attention to ALL her customers. Her boyfriend was there & that's ALL she had on her mind. Had I had one of her tables, she wouldn't have thrown a nickel at me as I'd have left her NOTHING!!!

The more we have discussed here, the more I have thought about the fact that a manager was NEVER mentioned. Nothing was said about the bartender being the manager. If there had been a decent manager on duty, the waitress would have had some help!!! A decent manager would have noticed the customers getting their own drinks & silverware & made sure it didn't occur. He would have apologized to the table even before they had completed their meal. A decent manager would have deducted the automatic gratuity from the bill. A decent manager would have stepped in when the cops showed up & stopped them from arresting the customers. A decent manager would have done SOMETHING...ANYTHING to stop ALL this from happening!!!

I'm beginning to wonder if there even was a manager there. I've seen them in several interviews & NOTHING has been said about a manager. You'd think the bartender would have called the manager BEFORE calling the police!!! You'd think the manager would have shown up when the police arrived...if for no other reason, but to see what was going on!!! This was poorly handled from the time the customers walked in the door. The more I think about it, the more I truly wonder if ANY of this was the waitress fault!!! It sounds to me that the place was badly managed all way round!!!

I totally understand why restaurants place an automatic gratuity onto the tab of a large table. Large groups are notorious for being teeny-tiny tippers. However, I feel that if a large table feels they received deplorable service, that automatic gratuity should be removed or atleast negotiated down. Offering a free meal would have been better diplomacy. Having a guest arrested is ridiculous!!!

I'm hoping that ALL the publicity will stop a lot of customers from visiting there!!! The manager is obviously useless. My guess is that the owner is not that much better. I doubt that the bartender just took it upon himself to have a paying customer arrested without prior instructions from either the owner or the manager. I'm still giving the waitress the benefit of the doubt as to her worth. If the manager had been paying attention, he would have given her some help...either by helping her himself or by having another waitress help her through the rough part!!!

It takes really bad service for me not to tip at all!!! I can usually think of a reason why the service was not what I preferred. Anybody can have a bad day & I like to think that I can recognize a waitress having a bad day. One place I frequent, I have a wonderfully GREAT waitress who busts her assss to take care of me. I always leave her a 50-60% tip because she earns it!!! As soon as my car pulls in the parking lot, she's bringing my drink to the table. She knows the table I prefer & when I walk in the door, it is set & ready for me to sit & place my order. She's getting to the point she can guess what it is I'm getting ready to order. For her husband's birthday, she brought me a piece of his birthday cake. She makes me feel as if I'm part of her family!!! Like I say, she's earned a good tip!!! On the other side, there is another young lady that works there that I get on the good waitress day off. She could care less if you're served or not. I leave her a tip, but it's usually only 10% & I know I'm over tipping her, but she is taking care of my needs. It's just that I feel like she'd prefer to be somewhere else...actually, ANYWHERE else!!!

I have absolutely NOTHING against tipping!!! I think a server DESERVES to be tipped IF they provide good service!!! I understand why restaurants have an automatic gratuity added to the bill of large groups. If not the waitress is usually stiffed out of her tip PLUS she loses the tips of the tables she didn't get to cover due to taking care of the large table. Where the problem comes in to me is when the automatic gratuity is added in & the customer didn't get good service!!! In this particular situation, I feel it should have NEVER gotten to the point where the customer was arrested!!! The manager should have stepped in & offered an alternative solution!!! That solution could have been a free dinner at a time of the customer's choice & tip the waitress. Or, if the customer still insisted, deduct the 18% gratuity from the check & wish them a nice night. It is completely possible that had they come back & had the same waitress, they might have found her to be more than adequate!!! I feel it was bad management decisions that lead to all this. By ALL means...TIP...ESPECIALLY if you have a good waitress!!! I don't care that they are earning minimum wage, if they are serving you, they've earned a TIP!!! A good waitress is worth her weight in gold...a lousy one, not worth the air they breathe!!!

I don't know if things are changing, but these people were arrested for NOT tipping. The restaurant automatically added in an 18% gratuity with their bill since there were 8 people. From what they say (& it has not been disputed) the service was worse than horrible & they didn't want to leave a tip. The bartender was checking them out & they told him they would pay for the food, but NOT the gratuity. He called the cops on them & they were arrested. This is the absolute MOST ridiculous thing I have ever heard. A tip is supposed to be a gift to say thank you for taking good care of me!!! They were NOT taken care of, did NOT want to leave a gift, & I feel that should have been the end of it. Was it??? NOOOO, they were still in jail the next morning. The manager did NOTHING to diffuse this situation. I'm not even sure that he was even there to do his job. This was poorly managed from the get go!!! The only thing you said that I disagree with is...when food does not come when it should, as a reason to not tip. The waitress has NO control over when the food comes out...that is the cook's problem. You are tipping the waitress for her service. If the food is slow, that needs to be discussed with the manager with a request for a discount on your bill or a free meal at a later date. Now if the waitress has your food in her hand & is chatting with somebody else while it gets cold, then that is tip related. I just still CANNOT believe that somebody was put in jail for not tipping for lousy service!!!

Either the owner or the manager should be fired!!! If it's the owner's policy to have customers arrested, then he should just close down. If the manager didn't do his job, he should go!!! I can't blame it on the waitress. Did the waitress earn her tip??? OH HELL NOOOOOO!!! Was it the waitress fault??? OH HELL NOOOOOO!!!! The manager should have made sure the customers were waited on. The very first time I was hit with a large table, my manager came out to help me. He knew I was doing the best I could do at the time, but was overwhelmed. He only helped long enough for me to get it back under control & then he stepped back out. It was good customer service & it made me happy as I earned the tip. Had the manager there stepped in, everybody would have been happy!!!