existance of god or a supreme being
By benny128
@benny128 (3615)
December 23, 2009 2:39pm CST
now firstly am not starting this discussion to be offensive to anyone but I am open minded about existance of god but there are far too many unanswered questions that even my local priest cannot answer so am throwing the doors open to you guys and girls of mylot.
Whether you believe or you don't and please respect everybodies views.
I am open minded but need a few things cleared up so to speak.
I am dubious whether god exists or not for the following reasons.
A) The christians do mass etc etc on the 25th of december (which is a pagan date) when the birthday of jesus was born early march this birthdate was then changed to 25th december by roman emperor constantine in a d 314. Also according to research he wasn't born not in bethlehem but near the Qumran platue, also jesus was a jew not a christian.
B) People's image of jesus is white where as he is mentioned in the bible to be of olive skin. If there is only one jesus why change his image.
C) If there is one god why do some faiths see jesus gods son in different images also some faiths people gods son hasn't actually be re-born yet and are waiting for that event.
D)The most puzzling part is the church ie gods house my local church is huge and I mean huge stands in its own grounds and some of the objects in there must be worth a heck of a lot of money but to quote
Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."]
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money.
surely that is a huge contradiction religions have millions of pounds worth of estate and objects surely thats contradicting as the church should sell everything and live the simple life that god asks for.
To me am not being offensive just find it very hard to answer these questions. Also there are loads of contradictions within the bible and what religious people believe.
Theres also bits in the bible that tells people if they commit adultery etc etc they will be stones yet the bible also asks that people forgive the sins of others ??
Hope this doesn't offend anyone as this is not meant too,
1 person likes this
17 responses
@PastorP (1170)
• United States
24 Dec 09
Greetings benny128.
Item A- for the first part I would say what Christians do does not negate the truth of God. There is a verse in 1 Corinthians that says, "let God be true, and every man a liar." Not sure about March being His birth month and on another post somewhere someone said July. However there is a good bit of research to support late September to early October, around the Feast of the Tabernacles.
Not aware of any research referring to the Qumran platue. I imagine though the Holy Bible account is the accurate one since a tax and census was issued and Joseph would have to check in so to speak at Bethlehem.
Yes, Jesus was a Jew. We are called Christians because the book of Acts points out that is what those of Antioch began to call the new Jewish sect. Btw, the earliest Christians, the Apostles and the first disciples, unless any were Gentiles, they were considered Jews by the Jews for a while.
Item B-Aye He was olive skinned, but, imo there can be no true image of Jesus. I doubt anyone really knows exactly how He looked. Various cultures tend to think of Jesus as one of their own, so we see images of a Caucasian Jesus. I think I've even seen an African one. But regardless of what man does, it does not change what God is.
Item C-Though we are all created in the image of God, we all are born with a sin nature. That sin nature influences us to think of God in ways other than what He truly is. The Holy Bible is the written standard by which we learn of God. Of course, one has to accept the Holy Bible by faith as true, and commit to His Son so the Truth is activated in their life.
Item D-I absolutely positively agree with you and you have posted some great Scripture there. But again, try to focus on God Himself and not the humans that are supposed to represent Him.
One thing that help me to commit to Christ is to learn that there is a difference between Christ Himself and religion.
Respectfully I would say there are no contradictions in the Word of God. If you think you have one, let me know. But please let's do one at a time. LOL, my computers here are mighty mighty slow. Besides, if you post one at a time your MyLot rating goes up faster;-).
In regard to your last question, under Jewish Law such were stone. Christ came and fulfilled the Law. And not only that, took all our sins. The command to forgive then comes from Him.
Getting back to supposed contradictions, many are cleared up when the following are applied (and there's more):
1. Immediate context
2. Book context
3. What does the original language say in regard to a word
4. Scripture interprets Scripture
5. What does the original language say in regard to the grammar
Hopes this helps! God bless.
@benny128 (3615)
•
24 Dec 09
cheers for your response there has been a lot written about the bible being the main stay the holy book, but what about the quaran etc etc
surely there should only be one holy book, and one religion if there is only one god so to speak.
Theres also bits in the bible that state man shall no live with man, or stoning for adultery yet in the same breath it preaches forgiveness and treating the fellow man with respect.
Also the new testament is different to the old one, surely the bible has been altered by priests or people in history for their own selfish needs same as goverments now a days using infomation to suit their own needs looks at iraq weapons of mass destruction etc the info was manipulated so there was a reason to go to war.
Also religion causes so many conflicts the crusades, templar knights etc etc if there was one god surely he would stop these wars as they are fighting againist the same god etc etc
and why is there s many faiths from spiritualists, to the druids to the greeks to catholics christians muslims who all worship a different type of god and sometimes a different image.
@PastorP (1170)
• United States
24 Dec 09
Greetings benny128,
Permit me to vent for a minute--I would have answered this about two hours ago but my other computer jammed up. As a precaution, when on other sites I type my response out first on notebook, then copy and paste into the forum I'm on. I can't do that here since my rating is not past 500 yet. So, what I typed earlier, which is still jammed up, I have to retype on this other computer.
Now, yes, there should be only one Book for there is only one God and there should only be one faith. However mankind is in a sinful state. We have a sinful nature. Man therefore approaches God in such a way he really moves away from God. So, which Book?
Christ said His Word shall never pass away, but the world will. When Christ comes back this will be taken care of.
On your next thought--yes, the we could say the Holy Bible was written in the same breath. That is why we should endeavor to read the whole thing, while at the same time depend upon the Holy Spirit (pneuma-akin to breath) to direct us. In this way we see it speaks as one. We have to understand forgiveness does not mean affirmation of a sin. We have to remember that in both OT and NT sin (and yes, the ones you mentioned) are condemned--but also Christ took those sins. In both the OT and NT repentance is required for forgiveness. There is really no difference. The stoning deal is part of the Jewish Law. Remember, in my previous response I said Christ fulfilled the Law and took our punishment. However, we have to repent to get that forgiveness and we have to have Christ on the inside of us to for us to even begin to live right in the eyes of God.
In regard to the Bible being altered, I would say it sure has been by the some of the newer translations or versions. That is why it is best to stick with a trusted translation. In regard to it being altered by the ancients it has not, for when it comes to the OT, the devout Jews meticulously copied the MSs, using a checking system to make absolutely sure there was no alteration. The NT is a slightly different story, and if you can get a copy of "How the Bible Came to Us" by Neil Lightfoot, that would be an immense help to you and anyone else. Suffice it to say that godly textual criticism provides us with an accurate text. While there are variants amongst the NT MSs at times, there is none that would devastate what true Christians already believe. There are no shockers to the faith.
And you are absolutely right about religion causing many wars. Like I might have said previously, I have learned to place my faith and trust in Person and not a religion. When Christ returns, He will also straighten out the religion mess here too.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
24 Dec 09
Hi benny, Thank you for a good discussion topic and I can't see how what you have written could offend anyone. I believe in God but not in the traditional God that many imagine. I could never be an athiest because I see God in every person and in all things, Like you I am not here to offend anyone but to express my own beliefs. I believe that God resides within us, I don't think that he is a sort of Superman who lives somewhere out in space in a place called heaven. I don't think that he judges us, but the only one who judges us is ourselves. God is not seprate from us, nor are we seprate from one another. We are all one and if we follow the teachings of Jesus as found in the Gospels,and especially in the Sermon on the Mount, we will be fine. As for your questions, it is true that Jesus was not born on the 25th of December,but I don't believe that the date really matters. I doubt if anyone really knows where he was born, but does that really matter? He was born and that's all that's important. I am not religious and think that the churches have many things wrong. I don't believe that they should have such big buildings or that the churches should be so rich. Some preachers are worth millions and I think that they should be giving more of it to the poor. Although the old testament said that a woman who committed adultry should be stoned, Jesus make it clear that was a bad law. I hope that you will get a lot of responces here and you will find something to help you. I am not saying don't go go church but I'm saying live the way that Jesus taught. Blessings.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
24 Dec 09
Hi again benny, We appear to be a lot alike, I consider myself spiritual but not religious, and all my life I've been interested in such things. I have read the Bible many times and continue to read it however I do not take it literally. I believe that there have been other great masters besides Jesus, but he is the one that I know most about. I think that if we were to know the original teachings, we would find that they were all saying much the same thing. I fully believe that we were put here to experience life in the here and now,to work for peace between all peoples and to love each other, making this life a little better for everyone we meet. I like to think that life itself is a prayer, and the only one we will ever need. Blessings.
@benny128 (3615)
•
24 Dec 09
thank you for your response,
I find the all religions fascinating, and to be honest I try and live my life to be as respectful as I can and embrace everybodies beliefs though I am not one that will follow a trend because its expected that I do.
I know a lot of religious people that can't live without religion and follow it blindly but have no idea why they do it.
To me I like to have answers and make an informed decision I think there is a supreme being as theres too many unexplained events in the world but whether that is god or just nature that is the question and have yet to hear any answers to really prove one way or another but I guess that is religion per say.
1 person likes this
@kashers (649)
• Jamaica
23 Dec 09
your question is more for the religious people,i have nothing much to say about that part but if u do want to really know the truths of all the search starts within u,u the soul of u,find the path that can connect u with the soul of u and then all mysteries that has your mind troubled will be clear,the truth lives within.
@benny128 (3615)
•
23 Dec 09
well the question is meant for everybody as there are a lot of differing views, as am trying to get views on the questions I have raised
and so far I understand the bibles been changed and updated but does that make it right or wrong.
I live my life to be respectful of everybody as we are all different but am open minded to religion or non-religion.
@lynkshadow (299)
• Canada
25 Dec 09
So your question about a supreme being is actually specifically related to the christian context of that. I think there may be a supreme being but I have no idea, I am open to the idea. I grew up in a catholic family. I learned that the church uses the bible and interprets it to it's needs. What the bible actually says where Jesus is concerned is most of the time in contradiction to what is really happening in a church. If you want to ask is there a supreme being and use the christian bible as a reference you have to start at the beginning and start asking if the bible is actually a true account of god. Firstly it has been translated, copied and split into multiple versions. Also there are gospels that the vatican refuses to include. I think if we are looking for an answer as to is there a god the christian bible is not a credible source to establish an answer to that. Cheers!
@benny128 (3615)
•
25 Dec 09
I have used the christian slant on the question because that is the way I was brought up by a christian family even though they didn't force it on me but allowed me to make my own decision,
but its open to all faiths, just using christians as that is what I am most familiar with
@freelance786 (89)
•
23 Dec 09
WITH NO OFFENSE
i will try to give answer to this question and you have every right to agre or disagree with me.
Actually all the things of Christianity came from Bible.so Bible is the source of all this info.
But as more then 2000 years have been passed,the bible has been modified and changed by the Priests who seek their autonomy.It is not in pure form as it was given to Jesus.
Jesus was a Jew but the people who follow him are called Christians may be bcoz of Crucifixion.
All the event is the times of prophet's were measured by a lunar calendar as Islam is following it right now as well.so according to lunar calender you cannot celebrate an occasion same day in two different regions so priest as i said earlier modified it and they set all the dates of celebrations according to a solar calender.
God says to everything on a moderate level.don't give everything to other so afterwords you have to beg or don't gather so much money either.
ya it is true you have to be moderate in everything.
@benny128 (3615)
•
23 Dec 09
so which book is correct though bible the quran etc etc
but again there are so many contradictions, so basically what you are saying is the bible is not true its been altered to satisfy peoples needs and been adapted to suit a way of life.
Even though the bible is the main stay of the faith.
@coolcoder (2018)
• United States
23 Dec 09
Actually all the things of Christianity came from Bible.so Bible is the source of all this info. But as more then 2000 years have been passed,the bible has been modified and changed by the Priests who seek their autonomy.
Where were the printing presses back in Christ's day? I would think you'd answer "nonexistant". Needless to say, they didn't have any Bibles as we know it back then. Some people then point to the Torah, which did exist during that time, but after Christ's sacrifice, there was no need to go back to the Mosaic law. As for your response about the calendar, peruse this little article if you will.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03158a.htm
1 person likes this
@nebeauty (21)
• Turkey
23 Dec 09
i notice that when u mentioned belief, you were just referring about christianity, check Islam and see if it does not answer your questions, try to do that in an unbiased way, i would like to remind u that both muslims and islam are not in support of those people who are causing pain in the society and still claiming that they are muslims(without knowing their religion) not knowing that to be a muslim is first knowing the meaning and understanding the meaning of Islam.
@benny128 (3615)
•
24 Dec 09
well I was brought up in a christian way, but fair point there are a lot of differing faiths but as I say am more familiar with christianity
and yeah I think there are a lot of people who hide behind religion as a tool to cause suffering
happy festive season to you if you celebrate this time of year
might have a look into islam as I say I am open minded and find the whole religion fascinating even though am not convinced either way.
@w1z111 (985)
• United States
24 Dec 09
Ahhhh.....the age-old question. Does God exist or not? A very difficult question to deal with, since nobody can present the kind of "evidence" our human understanding seems to want or need. If we can't see, touch, taste, hear, or smell it, we tend to think it can't be real. We do not often delve into the inner depths of our souls, our spirits, our being; that which gives us life, and thinking, and feeling, and doing; loving, caring, hoping, fearing, trusting, and the like.
It is there, in the inner depths, that we can learn some answers regarding God and His plan for Creation; including an understanding of the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ; given as a token of His commitment to humankind; along with the promise of forgiveness for all who accept and commit to the teachings and instructions that Jesus Christ lived and taught. We can also learn by reading Scripture, observing Nature, and generally opening up ourselves to learning from each and every experience we encounter.
It is a simple plan; I think God knows that humankind still has a long way to go before we reach the level of perfection He wants; where humans learn to love one another, help one another, forgive one another, and otherwise support, encourage and uplift one another through life.
God is Love. Pure, unassuming, and free. Believing in and following Christ as Savior and Teacher is entirely up to us; but it seems to me Christ's life and teachings fit what I would expect a God of Love would very much like to see in His Creation.
So...is there a God or Supreme Being? I believe so. Our existence, our surroundings, Nature, Earth, sky, atmosphere, natural cycles, our galaxy, our universe; all so profoundly perfect and harmoniously humming along on a scale so unimaginable and so inconceivable by mere human intellect. In my opinion, such perfection and harmony can only come from one source...perfect Love. And, we know God is Love, so...I believe!
God Bless All!
@benny128 (3615)
•
24 Dec 09
yeah nature is fantastic,
but if god is a supreme being that is in charge of the world and nature then surely he could erradictate world suffering etc etc
nature is not good in some respect we look around the world in africa theres not enough food and people dying of diseases.
There are flash floods mass extinctions volcano's that destroy massive area's nature isn't that perfect and its not man made as the worlds cycle has been happenning even before we were in human form even before the first recorded mention of jesus or god.
Also some faiths don't believe in evolution, yet we have parts on our human body that we no longer use our molar teeth used to be used for grinding we have a part on the base of our spine where we used to have a tail.
Our appendix was used when we used to eat plants and greenery now it is useless.
Thanks for your reply
and happy xmas,
@Sourceseeker (1197)
• United States
24 Dec 09
Of course there is a God or a supreme being? Check my post "Isnt creation obvious or tell me where did the monkies come from?" You are getting confused between man's interpretation or translation of God and his propaganda of jesus and the evidence of creation we see around us all the time. We see the green grass grow. We see the oceans flow and we see the blue sky in all its slendor.
If you get caught up into man's interpretation you can become jaded and not come to the logical conclusion that God or a supreme being created the world.
@benny128 (3615)
•
24 Dec 09
yeah but why do we have famine and mass extinctions is god was truely great he would stop all the suffering and give the world and nature the chance to provide every human being on this planet with the skills and knowledge to erradictate famine etc etc
cheers for the response
@planeswalker (102)
• Singapore
24 Dec 09
hi there, i think that every religion preaches the same stuff. it tells us to bo good. no matter what different religion says it comes back to the same thing but in different form. why matters so much of whether there is a god or not??
@sujathakkannan (90)
• India
24 Dec 09
i am not christian but my mentor is a christian. he told some thing about christ. see if it can match your opinion. actually according to chrisitanity, jesus is the rep of Father. Actually he told me, jesus will come back to world during judgement day and univ father,jesus and holy spirit will all mingle into a single entity. as for as 25th december is concerned, the answer is mentioned in one movie "Angels and DEmons" maybe you can satisfy with this answer. hope movies are watched by people all over the globe , so no chances of any or all wrong info. I liked one logic said in the movie "the davinci code" i.e bible has not jumped from the sky, it was all written by human beings like you and me. It may or may not be correct. if you want to believe you may if not leave it. If you believe god is one, your problem will be over. My belief of god is , ' it is a supreme power whom cant be controlled. it is responsible for all good and bad, it has no form.it is like an air. can be felt. not seen." we visualise and worship some form for our convenience. HOPE AM NOT HURTING ANYBODY'S FEELINGS
@ToughTate (143)
• United States
23 Dec 09
The bible is just another philosophical book. Like the tao te ching, or the quran, the Bible is just a book a collection(or one) of people wrote in order to relieve suffering. Look inside yourself and don't look for other ideals that other people believe in. There are so many dumb things in the bible that could never really happen, but sense there's no proof people say that it could just have happened. In my eyes there is a universal energy(proposed by Einstein) that is everyone and within everything. We are all connected because we all harbor from the same materials and thereby energy. People need to stop looking for religious beliefs that will separate them into a community, instead of focusing on a belief that connects and encapsulates everyone.
@magtibaygom (4858)
• Philippines
28 Dec 09
Like you, I have also many questions that even the priest or pastor cannot answer. But please understand that we are not God to explain all of these. Since our fall, when our forefathers committed sin, our understanding of things also declined. So this is the reason that there are many things that we cannot understand. But as far as the Bible have said, if we meet the Lord in the end, we can ask these very same questions to him and get answered. Because there are many questions that only God can answer.
@trios2009 (47)
• United States
23 Dec 09
well, i'm not sure if stoning is in the new testament, i can't say for sure. the bible was written is many different languages and has been translated over and over again, so everything that we read might not be accurate. And don't worry, no offense was taken. you're just asking questions. the contradictions can be very confusing. i usually just ask god about situations and then act according to what i feel he is telling me. i just wish i had the answers for you!
@benny128 (3615)
•
23 Dec 09
nah thats cool,
as I say I live my life to be respectful and kind but to me thats just having common sense and being respectful.
Hopefully will get some more responses from more religious people as its so confusing and as I say I like to be open minded about everything.
@jambi462 (4576)
• United States
24 Dec 09
I do believe that there is an existence of a god or multiple gods or supreme forces or supreme beings. Whatever you would like to call them you can just some what feel these forces when you are in the right state of consciousness. I guess you can choose what you want to believe but I think that we shouldn't just accept people's beliefs but we should try and find things that we actually believe in and not try to fit into any religion just because that's part of the way they do things.
@greenfeathers (1206)
• United States
24 Dec 09
Actually, I'm not offended. And, I in turn hope that you not be offended when I say there is more potential in someone who asks than in someone who denies outright..
A) Had the CHRISTians celebrated the birth of the CHRIST on, say, the day after Groundhog's Day, would that enhance or detract from the celebration of the CHRIST child's birth? The point is in the celebration of the gift of the CHRIST to this messed-up world, not on the day we do it on..It fascinates me that we can go to a movie and see the many decades of a person's life compacted into a 2 hour cinema and be fine with it. But compact the life of the CHRIST into 365 days and all folks do is fuss about inaccuracies..hmm..
B) Well, yes and no. Where I grew up in Ohio was all white, mainly german, mainly catholic. Yet, in all of this one church, St. Theresa'a church, had a black CHRIST on the cross..As the CHRIST is universal I see no problems with each culture having their own depiction of Jesus. Afterall, he is all things to all men..and, as with St. Theresa's, to recognize the truth of the CHRIST outside of a personal comfort zone is more important than the depiction.
C) Because we are creatures of choice. There's nothing else that I can say but that.
D) For the record, I don't attend church because, to me, churches reflect people more than God. But I don't knock those who need that atmosphere. I prefer the temple of creation built by God Himself as the refection of Himself and the congregation of humanity with which to worship. Afterall, Jesus used creation in his teachings. His sermon on the mount, beneath the eyes of God. He often times used the critters of creation in his parables and was not adverse to one on one with the blind, sick and lame..all without a man built church.
I hope this helps. Its helped me!..Enjoy the search and its coming treasure!
@JUSCORP (9)
• Mexico
24 Dec 09
I think who there's a god on the most high of the skies, but for many people that isn't the question.
The question is "Who's that god, who's that person?", i think on the existence of a god cuz i think who nothing it's a coincidence, the life isn't a coincidence, there are many inexplicable thinks .
And god does manifestate day to day thru miracles and simply "the life"
That's why i think on the existence of god
Let do the lord come to our hearts this Christmas brother
I'm proudly christian catholic