What does Ephesians 5:22 Mean To You?
@danishcanadian (28953)
Canada
January 13, 2010 10:55pm CST
Wives submit yourselves to your husband, as the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church.
I have a problem with this. I know that it goes on to say that husband should love their wives as Christ loved the church, and that he should give himself up for her, as Christ did for the church, and in the verse before it says we should submit to eachother, but for me there is something so inequal about putting one person as the head of the family.
I asked my Presbyterian minister about this, and he said to take it in context, that Paul dind't exactly live during the age of feminism.
I asked my husband about this, and he says that Paul has been proven a mysoginist, and that we should not take this literally. If Paul had shut up after 5:21 (submit to eachother), and said that husband and wives should love eachother the way husbands are to love their wives in Eph 5:25-33, that would be different.
I don't think genders should be given specific duties.
In my marriage for example, I do the financies, he does the domestic stuff. We are both unemployed (on disability and on-line earnings) and we do what we do best. We live in a tiny apartment, so there is not much to manage.
I have the "final say" on the finances, because I am so much better at drawing up and keeping a budget than he is, but this does not mean I put him on an allowance.
"Can we afford...."
Yes we can, no we can't, and I tell him why. We have our vices too. He likes his cigarettes and vodka, and I like my mocha lattes, and plum brandy. This is in the budget, along with food and everything else, although lower on the priority list of course. LOL He trusts me to take care of the big important things (food, rent, bills, other essentials) and we both know what we'd "like to have" after (entertainment, our own little pleasures I mentioned above, date nights, and other extras). I am better at managing this balance.
As for the cooking and domestic stuff in the house, there are things I can not do physically because of certain physical challenges. Also, I hate cooking, and I'm lousy at it. Hubby loves to cook, and he's GREAT at it!!! We know what we like, and we both like the same things. We discuss food, and are usually in the mood for the same thing. I don't care HOW he cooks it, or how long it takes, just as long as I know when it will be ready (so I can be ready when he is, and stop working to eat, so he won't have to wait for me). All I care about is that it's the way WE like it. All he cares about is that we can afford what we need, AND what we want. We can almost always afford what we want, and I'm good at hiding a bit of money for emergencies.
Those are just two examples of how we run things. If we want to do something separately, we do. He wants to watch a loud and boring movie on the sci-fi channel (not my taste, and I hate the noise!!) I will go to the coffee shop and read for a few hours (something I do anyway, so it's not like he's kicking me out of the apt).
We each have our own computers, and our own last names. We are together because we love eachother, and we are best friends.
In the beginning it probably felt like I was the head of accounting, and he was the resident chef, but as time went on, we got so in-sync with eachother, that although I still manage the money, and he still manages the kitchen, no one really has a "final say" because we are so in step with eachother. It's like running a three-legged race successfully. You have to KNOW how to do it, to keep from falling over.
We are like two horses pulling a cart, and God is driving that cart, as opposed to him being the driver, and me being in the passenger seat, or me being the horse, and him telling me where to go, or something like that. LOL
So, what does Eph 5:22 mean to you? How do you interpret the verse?
For us it's only context, and the lesson we have learned is to work together as equals as opposed to submitting.
What does the rest of the chapter men to you?
Do you believe in specific gender roles, or do you and your spouse do what you do best, be it traditional or non-traditional?
3 people like this
12 responses
@GardenGerty (160708)
• United States
14 Jan 10
In many ways it is a matter of semantics and translation. The way I came to regard this scripture over the years is through a Bible study that gave me an understanding that seemed to fit. You submit yourself to your marriage partner by doing what you do best in the marriage, giving that partner the opportunity to benefit, just as you do. In your case it is the money management, and in Walker's case it is the domesticity. Wouldn't it be a silly situation if you were to throw up your hands and say "Oh no, I cannot manage the money, it is not a woman's place!" No, you submit to using your best talent for both you and your husband. You guys have a good partnership going there. Carrying on with your cart analogy, you have submitted to being equally yoked with your marriage partner.
2 people like this
@danishcanadian (28953)
• Canada
14 Jan 10
And that's why I have absolutely NO PROBLEM AT ALL with Eph 5:21. If Paul had shut up after that, there'd be no problem. It's in 5:22 when he tells wifes to submit to their hhsbands, and then goes on to say that the husband is the head of the wife.
If people submitted to eachother (gave to eachother) as per Eph 5:21, and loved eachother equally in the way Paul commands husbands to love their wives in 5:24, there'd be no problem at all. It's when gender roles play into it.
Also, hubby and I have a big problem with comparing marriage to Christ and the Church. Clearly there is an order.
God
Christ
Humans.
OK the Bible preaches God, Christ, man, woman, but we believe that men and women are equal, so to compare man-woman, to Christ-human, does not work.
As long as people are equal, that's all that matters.
A lot of people have tried to explain to me that to submit is to give, as per the example I used above, putting "give" in brackets, but when submission is commanded differently for woman and for man, then there is a problem with the "submit equals give" theory.
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
14 Jan 10
You have the best marriage I know! My wish is that everyone who marries has a partnership like yours. for me, it would be totally different. I would be a mule and my poor husband would be the frustrated rider. I see marriage as a male dominated thing. That's why I will never marry.But I can see loving my best friend. Agreeing on most things and living together happily.But I would never marry him. It would kill me to see all the love I have for him turn into something else.so I guess I take this passage Literally and that's why i won't marry.
1 person likes this
@danishcanadian (28953)
• Canada
14 Jan 10
Thank you so much. I may brag, and brag, and brag, and brag, about my marriage, but hey!! I think we're a good example of what people do, if they just try. OK there are some marriages that are probably right out of Ephesians, some that are the other way around, and others like ours, as we are all different, however, we don't have to be bound by the Bible. Maybe if we weren't, I wouldn't be so judgemental of the male-domanted situations.
I saw a lot of Ephesians marriages, and I said that I would never be a part of that. My husband and I had some long talks about what we WANTED out of a marriage, and when it was discovered that we both wanted the same thing, we built our marriage on our foundation.
One thing I did take literally was the passage on female head-covering as a sign of submission, so I did not wear a veil on my wedding day. I actually wore a tiara which did not cover my head, and which was rather ornate. I didn't wear it because I'm shallow (LOL) I wore it because I don't think style is a sin. Some religions seem to preach simple dress and nothing more, because it's a sin for a woman to draw attention to herself. I also liked the tiara because it had a heart in it, and the heart on my head said a lot about how I see love. I love with my heart, but think with my head, and the two work as well together, as hubby and I do.
...and when else am I going to get to wear a tiara? LOL
If you don't WANT a male-dominated marriage, you don't have to have one. If a part of you wants to re-define marriage, then go for it. Of course if you don't want to do it, I'm not going to make you, I'm just saying that you should not be so bound by such a custom that you deny yourself what Hubby and I have, if you ever decide you want that.
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@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
14 Jan 10
I have decided no marriage for me. I hope to find the one but I never will marry him. Before this summer I thought the perfect guy would already be married. I thought I would be the perfect mistress. I don't want kids . I don't get all excited over the holidays and I am a romantic. Sounds like the perfect mistress right? But then I fell for a guy who isn't married.it didn't work out but now I know he doesn't have to be married to be perfect. It's me and my views on marriage that keeps me from even tryig to mix love with marriage.Marriage is for everyone but me.but with that said I Know I could stay with the "One" for the rest of my life. But the one for me Has to feel the same about marriage or we will have a problem.The way I can explain is that I see marriage for me as the end and nit the beginning and this feeling will never change.
1 person likes this
@danishcanadian (28953)
• Canada
15 Jan 10
I'd make a lousy mistress. Too much guilt!! I'd be pi$$ed off if my husband had a mistress, so I could never be someone else's mistress.
Hey, if you find the right guy who doesn't mind being the un-married one, go for it, and good for you. We all need to do what works best.
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@cloudwatcher (6861)
• Australia
15 Jan 10
I have been VERY happily married to my wonderful husband for almost 50 years. We are both Christians whose FIRST priority in life is our relationship with our Father God through our Saviour, Jesus Christ.
I have no problem with the "submit" of Ephesians because my husband fulfills the "love your wife as Christ loved the Church". Christ loved the Church with a self-sacrificing love. He loved the Church with His whole being. When a man practices this kind of love toward his wife, submission is easy, because she KNOWS her husband only wants the very best for HER.
I believe the man is given the responsibility of being the head of the home, which means the final decision is his to make and his to accept responsibility for. The wife was given to man for many reasons and being his slave was NOT one of them. Marriage is a partnership and ideally the two will discuss all the pros and cons of any action. He will listen to any objections and together they will come to a conclusion, but the final decision rests on HIS shoulders. I will always have my say and it will be treated with respect. I will listen to his view with respect and I am happy to leave the final decision with him.
I am by nature a confident and competent person who holds responsible positions. I conduct seminars and workshops. I am not one to submit easily to others' opinions, but submitting to my husband is a joy and does not make me feel inferior in any way.
@deedee328 (1122)
• United States
21 Jan 10
I whole-heartedly agree with you, cloudwatcher! Furthermore, I think some people are confusing stereo-typical gender roles with submission. I think that Paul's teachings were inspired by God. If we are to use the Bible as our instructions, then we can not pick and choose what we are going to obey. The Bible, in my opinion, was written for ALL time, not just back when it was written.
If your husband is living up to his responsibilities and doing God's will, then the wife won't feel like she is being ordered or lead around.
It sounds to me that all of you claiming to have a wonderful "partnership" with your husbands are in submission and just dont realize it.
Husbands have to keep in mind that God sent you your wife as a help mate and companion, not a "slave".
As long as he continues to treat me with love and respect, I have no problem being submissive to my husband as my God has instructed me to do.
@coffeebreak (17798)
• United States
18 Jan 10
The world is so busy disecting the Bible so that they can make it either untrue or non believable or simply unacceptable that this kind of thing happens and people just stop bothering with believeing in the bible. Here's my say. Husband and wife should love each other equally and if that is done, the rest all falls into place. If you love your husband enough, woud you give your life for him? yeah. and visa versa.. so where's the problem?
Head of house hold... well like any organization, there has to be a leader. Survivor reality show...first thing they do is "elect" a leader. Back in bible times, the man was the leader simply cause that was how things were back then. Now...women can be leaders too. Back to the 'loving equally"...if she brings home the bacon and he fries it up in a pan... what's wrong with that? THe "organization" is running just fine. God is not going to send that man to he-double hockey sticks cause he didn't do the society-say-so-proper thing and have the job and the wife isn't going to follow him there cause she didn't stay in the kitchen.
I think to much is put on the intrepretation of something, that the whole point of what is being said is totally missed.
@commanderxo (1494)
• Canada
14 Jan 10
Don't forget what century this was in, what religion it was, and upon where it took place. Read into it for those reasons, and it will all make sense to you. This is a book of written history. Remember?
cdrxo
1 person likes this
@mobhomeir (7558)
• Philippines
17 Jan 10
Wow this is quite a very long to read my friend 
well as for my own opinion, i think this verse means that the wives never permitted to overpower their husbands decisions. But neither the husband but they must come up in one understanding to push through whatever subjects that needs decisions. Husbands decisions should prevail with the knowledge and both agreed upon by the couple. Of course this doesn't mean the wives has no authority to voice out her ideas. Of course she is entitled for that but not to the extent that she would force her ideas over-passing the husband. No. It should be the husband decision and choice still would win to avoid more discussions that would cause trouble.
Well, this is only what i understood danish..I respect whatever you have..Cheers
Mobhomeir here..
well as for my own opinion, i think this verse means that the wives never permitted to overpower their husbands decisions. But neither the husband but they must come up in one understanding to push through whatever subjects that needs decisions. Husbands decisions should prevail with the knowledge and both agreed upon by the couple. Of course this doesn't mean the wives has no authority to voice out her ideas. Of course she is entitled for that but not to the extent that she would force her ideas over-passing the husband. No. It should be the husband decision and choice still would win to avoid more discussions that would cause trouble.
Well, this is only what i understood danish..I respect whatever you have..Cheers
Mobhomeir here.. @shaunckennedy (55)
• United States
16 Jan 10
I think your idea of "head of household" is skewed. It has nothing to do with who cooks and/or cleans.
You said that you and your husband are "in step." Okay, that's great. So are my wife and I. There are still times when we disagree. If your husband wanted to take a family vacation to one city, you to another, and there simply was not enough money to do both, then who wins? You hash it out, you both have good reasons and strong feelings about your individual choices. Who wins?A democracy of two doesn't work. Someone has to loose. Someone has to submit. Biblically, it is the woman.
Take, for example, our relationship to the government. We should submit to the government. When I get my tax refund, and $4000 shows up in my bank account automagically, then it's not really a matter of submission. I do the paperwork just because it's how I tell the government that we agree on how much money I should get back.
But there are cases where the government and I disagree. In those cases, I submit to the government. This doesn't mean I don't fight the good fight politically to "win the arguement." But it does mean that when the decision comes down to right or left, I follow the government's lead until I convice the government otherwise.
Head of household simply means final decision maker.
@BarBaraPrz (47343)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
14 Jan 10
I think you have it all figured out. And as long as it works for you, don't worry about it. It's your marriage, not anybody else's.
@jillhill (37354)
• United States
14 Jan 10
I had an ex boyfriend quote this to me and I had to remind him that I wasn't his wife. I wouldn't take it as it's written....for in our advancement all of life has changed.....when it was written a man probably was the soul provider etc....now life it so much different and that's where equality come in.....we are all created equal.
@dawnald (85146)
• Shingle Springs, California
14 Jan 10
Not a Christian, but...
I had a discussion with my cousin and my aunt about this. My cousin's husband is a Baptist minister and my aunt is a Methodist minister. The cousin's husband seems determined to humble her and turn her into a very submissive woman and my aunt was arguing with her that wasn't what the bible mean. My heart really goes out to her.
As for me, I don't believe in specific gender roles at all. I think each family should define who does what and as long as it's OK with both parties, taint nobody else's business.
@ramos7881 (344)
• United States
14 Jan 10
I and my spouse do what we do best in a non-traditional way - he has been a stay at home dad, he is the better cook, and I also take care of our family finances. I do not think that is contradictory to this verse though. I believe that this verse means that as a wife, if my husband tells me something along the lines of where we should be going in life as not only a couple, but as a family, I need to listen up and do what I can to make it happen or just follow if that is the case. I feel that this verse covers many different situations. For example, if my husband came home and said, "We as a family watch too much TV, I want to cut everyone's TV time down to less than one hour a day." Then it would be my responsibility to stand behind him and enforce this decision he has made. Or if my car broke down, and my husband said, "We are putting way too much time and money on this car, it is time to look into buying a new one" - we would sit down together and decide how much we could spend, what kind of car we needed, etc. I don't believe that this verse means "keep the wife at home" or "the woman cooks and cleans for the man". I think it just means that we are to understand that our husbands are made to look out for our (and our children's, if applicable) total well-being. I also don't think it means the husband makes the decisions and the woman blindly follows. Marriage is a partnership and we as women are to understand that he is the head of the household and we need to respect him as such, and men are to understand that they are the head of the household and not abuse that power, but to take it to heart and do their best as providers (whether it is material, emotional, etc.)
