You are making my child an outcast!

@livewyre (2450)
January 25, 2010 9:29am CST
This cry is aimed at those parents that buy everything their children desire regardless of the cost, and allow their kids to push the boundaries further than you allow your kids.. Peer pressure is right there for five-year olds, and includes the types of handheld games that they have and the internet sites they are allowed to access. Once a child gets to about 10 years of age they are severely hampered socially if they have responsible parents who do not allow them to have a Facebook account, mobile phone and all the lastest toys and gadgets. My cry is this: You probably think you are helping your child to 'get on' by providing all this stuff, but what you are actually doing is building frustrations between parents who do not allow or cannot afford these treats and their kids who feel it is 'not fair' (and they are right...). I visited a house the other day where seven year olds were on Facebook playing games, well you have to be logged onto Facebook to play the games, and I am sure you have to be 14 to have a Facebook account... so when those kids go to school and tell their mates about the cool games they have played - the pressure comes right back on to 'responsible' parents who do not allow their kids to have a facebook account. You can imagine the scene.. How do you address these problems - do you just give in, or do you become the ogre who won't let their kid do anything???
1 person likes this
12 responses
@laglen (19759)
• United States
25 Jan 10
Could it be possible that they were logged in under their parents? I have a friend that allows her 8 year old to play games under her log in. I do not want to seem to be attacking your post, but I dont understand why parents who are able to give their children some better things should feel bad because you won't or can't. This is a great teachable moment for your kids. Life is not fair. Just because Billy has a certain thing, doesn't mean you should have it. You don't always get everything you want. So I respectfully disagree with you. By the way, I am a single mother and my daughter goes with out a LOT.
@livewyre (2450)
26 Jan 10
You are free to disagree of course, that is the point, and to be fair I chose the subject because I thought people would relate to it. My argument is NOT that I cannot cope with the pressure, my daughter is very sweet and does not give us any problems. My argument is that I have to address issues that I do not want to address, solely because other parents have not considered how their lack of constraint affects others. Sure you can log in under your parents account, but there is a good reason why there is an age limit of 14. I mentioned in an earlier reply above that there was a story in our local paper about a woman who let her eleven year old open her own FB account, and sure enough a predator tracked her down and tried to arrange a meeting. No amount of 'keeping up with the Jones's' is worth that risk surely?? (on the issue where a 7 year old was on FB with their school pal - I am sure it was a parents account, but the parents had left the children completely unattended - which whilst it could be interpreted as 'trusting'...is probably more like naivety) Maybe it's a male thing, but I feel bad if I can't provide everything my family wants (even if it's not reasonable), I feel bad - there's nothing I can do about it - I'm not about to start crying or anything, that's just how it makes me feel. YOu are right in that it is a valuable life lesson, I read something the other day that said when you give in to your children's demands you are avoiding the chance to prepare them for real life - they are going to learn sooner or later - better to learn on something insignificant than later on in life where real damage can occur. I think we may agree on more points than you think: Kids can't always have what they want It's good experience Kids should be exposed (under controlled conditions) to all sorts of experiences The only point I can see on how we differ is how we feel about it..
@livewyre (2450)
26 Jan 10
Wow Kim - that's exactly my point!
• United States
26 Jan 10
Hi Laglen, I don't think the point is that those who can shouldn't, and I have explained to my kids why sometimes we can't get what the Jones's have per say.. My beef is with those parents who can and do and don't care.. They leave their kids to their own devices and let them run with it.. So when "Billy" comes to my house and he is 10 and they want to get on Facebook because "Billy's" mother doesn't care if he does it or not, well then I have a problem because my ten year old is not getting on facebook.. I agree with you that we need to teach our kids that not everything in life will be fair and some of us will have more than others and that's just life.. That is what I teach them everyday..
• Grand Junction, Colorado
26 Jan 10
Hello live, Something in your discussion made me remember a childhood memory and 3 things my mom told me that day. I lived in a small town we only had a few neighbors close by with kids. One of the kids in our small neighborhood was an only child, my family had 4 kids in it, this little girl got dessert everynight after dinner so long as she ate her dinner. Imagine my surprise, dessert everynight, wow, I told my mom and asked how come we don't have dessert everynight and the 3 things my mom told me were: 1) not all families can afford it (we were one) 2) that it wasn't healthy to have fattening desserts everyday and 3) all familys are different. While I don't agree that children should be on an adult website, I don't think that children having what there parents can afford for them is wrong. All family's are different. My 2 eldest children received cell phones at 12 and 14 and no they were nothing fancy, however I was able to reach them when needed wherever they were. They did have hand held gaming systems, but we bought used games for them. I don't consider myself to be an irresponsible parent by any means and no I don't buy things just to keep up with the "Jone's", I do buy my children things I feel at the appropriate age that I determine and that I can afford. So this means that my children don't have the latest technology, they don't get the latest and greatest games out. They do have things and yes they have more than I did at there age, however that is in part do to the times we live in. The fact I can afford more than my parents could doesn't make me better or worse. I too hear how so and so had this or that, and I tell my children the same thing that my mom told me all family's are different. Some family's can afford things and some can't. And that some things are just bad for us. I think that sometimes we just don't explain things well enough to our children. The simple no doesn't always work, give an explanation. My son is 15 now and he will ask for something followed by if you can't afford it I understand. I think that I have taught him well. My 19 year old is out of the house but she was the same way. My 6 yr old is another story, however, she is slowly learning. So I have to disagree to a point. Just my 2 cents worth.
@livewyre (2450)
26 Jan 10
Hi Beanie - I think we agree far more than we disagree, your post reflects everything I myself believe. My problem is not with parents giving good things to their children, it is more about letting them bring those things into the school so they can create a divide between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. My argument is that I am being forced to make decisions I would not choose to make (I think this is a male thing to be fair...). We are at a similar stage to your youngest one, and I am sure in ten years time she will understand perfectly. I agree that there is a very practical reason for having a cell phone and will provide one when the time is right, but it will not be the very latest model. made by the coolest manufacturer with the very latest applications... I think you have demonstrated that you are the very opposite of an irresponsible parent and you certainly have taught your children well, I am sure they will make you very proud.
1 person likes this
• United States
26 Jan 10
Hi Beanie, I read your post and I agree with you too to a point.. It is the things that are bad for them that the parent's let them get away with that I don't like.. Just because jimmy down the road's parents don't care enough to keep him off websites that are meant for adults doesn't mean I'm a bad parent because I don't let my kids do it.. and the parent's down the road doin this are the ones giving me the "mean parent" sticker that I dislike.
1 person likes this
• United States
26 Jan 10
LOL after reading all these posts over again and then again.. it seems that we all really agree.. We all just want what is best for our kids and just need to vent sometimes when these issues come up.. I don't like to tell my kids they can't have the latest popular electronics toys and such but I simply can't afford it.. I think that is really the issue here..
1 person likes this
@doryvien (2284)
• United States
26 Jan 10
Hi livewyre, I think you have a point there, and I agree on some points. As a parent, I am not really that "strict" when it comes to giving my kids what they want, I bought them gadgets that are admittedly a little expensive for their age (my kids are 7 and 10yrs old, both boys). But the deal is, before buying them, they have to earn them. My kids look forward to every quarter exam in school coz they know if they did well, they can ask me to buy something they like - like toys. My husband had a good reason for buying each of them PSP, because both landed on the top 5 students in their respective classes. And I do have clear rules in terms of playtime - they can only play PSP and PS2(which they also have) when there's no school (Sat, Sun, holidays). About the Facebook thing, my older son told me about his classmates who have Facebook accounts, but he himself said he knows it's only for 'old' people, so he didn't ask me to open an account for him. But I'm quite sure if he does ask me, I'd allow him to have one coz I know he's responsible enough to handle it. I guess if you install the discipline and clear rules early on, kids should be allowed to have fun, will be able to deal with peer pressures, and be responsible.
@livewyre (2450)
26 Jan 10
Hi Dory, I think we are pretty much on the same level, it IS nice to buy nice things for your kids, and your approach makes perfect sense. It's interesting how different people have different systems for rewards. We are doing a reward system where the little one gets an amount each month unless she is particularly naughty (I'm not THAT comfortable with the idea to be honest..), others have chores for their kids, and you are using academic achievement. I think each child responds to different things and each method is teaching the kids about earning something and about value. I didn't think the Facebook thing was such a big deal until I read about predators targeting teens on it. Luckily the girl in question showed her Mum straight away when things became inappropriate, but contact WAS made, and for every child that blows the whistle - how many don't? Sure your child may be level-headed and most probably will be fine, but I am just wary of how clever these predators are at passing themselves off as 'mates' and grooming kids without their parents having a clue. I don't plan to get hysterical about it, but for me it's a clear choice. If FB say 14 is the minimum age, I am not going to go against that otherwise how bad am I going to feel if there is an incidence of cyber-bullying or worse?? ...knowing that I had said it was OK. I suppose my point is that parenting is hard enough without having to cope with all these issues that shouldn't even be issues. (ie. you shouldn't HAVE to make the Facebook decision if other parents had stuck to the guidelines - assuming some of these kids are too young to legitimately have accounts..)
@livewyre (2450)
27 Jan 10
You know Dory that is exactly how I feel about FB, I only joined to see pictures from a fancy dress party I went to, and have tried to be low profile on it ever since, but was particularly shocked when they altered everybody's privacy settings a few weeks ago. I dread having friend requests because I do not particularly want to 'live' on FB, but it seems rude to have to either ignore or refuse friend requests (from people you do actually know) the more you say 'oh alright then' to, the more pop up the next day - it's like a disease...
@doryvien (2284)
• United States
27 Jan 10
Oh yes, with that twist on the story, I would be scared to have my child open an account with FB. I am not too familiar with FB coz after opening my own account (which I did just about a month ago due to the prodding of a former boss who wanted me to see her pics), I haven't visited it since - I personally think it's a waste of time. But I did see how my nieces and nephews who are teenagers (about 18 and up) enjoy the site by playing online games, and I thought it's okay. What you mentioned here probably just one of the downsides of this popular site, and I'm happy that I got to know this through this discussion. It is a clear warning sign for parents to be watchful of these seemingly innocent, fun sites. Guess I should consider myself lucky for having kids who know which things are available and appropriate for them, and which are not.
• United States
25 Jan 10
My children do have some of the things you speak about on this post but in our case they have to buy them for themselves. They do chores and I do give an allowance for doing them. They also get money for holidays and what not from family who live far from us (almost our whole family). This they are expected to use for Wii games, didj things and anything else that is not a present for a birthday or something.
@livewyre (2450)
25 Jan 10
That seems reasonable, I used to do the same when I was a kid, but my sister used to get all the big contracts!! she would earn a whole load more than me, branding me as lazy whereas I prefer to think I was using my time creatively... My little one is a bit small for chores yet, but I think we may adopt this approach when the time comes - what age did you start them at?
@livewyre (2450)
27 Jan 10
That's great, they are learning valuable lessons in all sorts of ways by helping out. To be fair, my little one is only to eager to help out, and sees no real difference between playing a game with us or helping us do the washing up, or anything else... I don't think she sees 'chores' as any sort of hardship at all. However it's all too easy to discount her contribution and it's often easier to have her not helping, but I probably should try to think of some regular things she can do to help out that are within her capabilities...
• United States
25 Jan 10
We started a few months ago and she is 4. There are little things I have her do around the house like fix the little carpets on the stairs, feed the cat, put away the forks and spoons which is good because it teachers her how to categorize and separate things. Nothing a 4 yr. old can't handle. They get paid based on what they do not the amount of jobs. Some chores are not money makers though. My oldest wanted a cat (she was 9 at the time) and I said that was fine as long as she vacuumed and did the litter every morning. She still does and that kitty may be trouble but she loves him all the more for it.
• United States
26 Jan 10
Well.... in regards to my stepsons [as I dont have any kids myself]. They DO get all that "new", "hightech crap" that they will only play with for so long. They have gotten everything they wanted [minus the cellphone]. Their dad & I disagree with it & truly believe it will cause problems when they are older. Their mom gives them what they want. So, when its giftgiving time. We are scraping up to buy the hottest new things out because that's what they DONT have. It's ridiculous. I was raised poor & we said that when we have children together....our kids [together] aren't getting that crap. I will put my foot down. My kids will get stuff from goodwill, yardsales, etc. They don't "NEED" the hottest new toys out when they are just going to break them or lose interest in them. Why not give an unloved toy some attention rather than letting it sit in a landfill. Not only that, but I'm a HUGE HUGE HUGE crafter & supporter of handmade items. My kids are going to love that handmade toys and gifts. They will understand the love and hardword that went into them. BUT THENNNNNN, I come to the dilema & trust me....I DO think about this.... What if our kids together get the handmedowns & then their 1/2 brothers get the expensive crap....Am I going to see disappointed faces & here "don't you guys like us? do you love them more? etc etc??" What do you do in a situation like that? I dont want to raise my kids where they are born with a silver spoon in their mouth.... what do u guys think?!
@livewyre (2450)
26 Jan 10
Oh gosh - that is a whole new discussion in itself. I feel for you because the 'other parents' in your scenario are actually related to your kids..... I don't envy you some of the decisions you are going to be making. I think your attitude is spot on, and yet you are having the very issues that I am talking about thrust right into your face. I think you have to be true to yourself (and your husband of course) when it comes to how you will treat your own kids - and the chances are that the age gap between the step-sons and any kids you may have of your own, will mean that the step-sons will have 'grown up' a bit by then and they may be able to understand and help you out with your dilemma. Small kids are happy with anything wrapped up in bright shiny paper so you have a good few years to sort out your tactics.
@livewyre (2450)
27 Jan 10
Ha ha - no don't do that, you will be surprised how much stuff like that even small kids remember. Our little one is constantly surprising us with the stuff she remembers. Besides which my No. 1 rule with children is 'don't say anything you are not prepared to back up' so unless you actually intend to buy all that stuff when they are older, it could well backfire... You know I even hate having to pretend about Father Christmas and the tooth fairy and the like - but even those things are pressures placed on us by other parents. If I wanted to tell my child the truth about such things (which I very much prefer), I would be branded as a spoilsport by other parents - so we keep up the pretense (at some expense if you look at one of my earlier responses in this discussion)
• United States
26 Jan 10
my only plan, like you said is to fall back on the "age gap". maybe say, "we love you just the same, but they are older. when you are older you can have stuff like that. right now you are too little." However, i dont want that to backfire on me LOL. "well mom YOU said when i was older I could have an IPOD touch, ________ was only 11 when he got his. how come i cant have one now?"
• United States
25 Jan 10
Hi livwyre, I've been there done that and I'll tell you what my answer was to my kids when they asked why they couldn't have what their friend was getting- I told them it was because - I want what is best for them, and that I care enough to know what not to let you guys do and just because "so and so's" parent's aren't as interested or careful is not my fault. It worked and my kids felt better about NOT having the stuff that they knew they were really too young to have anyway.. KIm
@livewyre (2450)
26 Jan 10
No, it is not 'wealth' per se that I am tilting at - it's irresponsible parenting that puts pressure on other parents that is getting my goat... Whilst these parents may be teaching thier kids really bad lessons about 'need' and 'value', they are also making me make decisions about my child that I shouldn't have to make...
• United States
26 Jan 10
Hi live, It works for me and my kids.. My children have been brought up to understand that not everybody is as, well off as others and sometimes we can't afford to as some to - buy a Nintendo DSI so that they can treat it like crap and ruin it in a week.. but their Mommy will buy another one...- no no no my kids appreciate what they have and are responsible with it.. I don't want to diss rich people because that isn't the point I'm aiming at here..it's that WE shouldn't have to feel like a BAD parent because the well off family down the road has two or three of everything..
• United States
25 Jan 10
I understand your anger, but why be mad with the ones who do it? At least you know you are doing right by your child(ren) by not buying them everything under the sun. You are teaching your child that money isn't everything and you don't need all kinds of useless stuff to survive. Remember that alot of people try to make their lives to look better than what it really is. As for the facebook, I definitely would tell your child that it is too dangerous for them to be on facebook and that until you feel they are ready to have an acct as such, then they are not allowed. I agree that kids these days have too many freedoms and alot of parents (not all) don't want to deal with the whining and fighting with their kids. I know it is frustrating, but you have to keep faith that you are teaching your kids and they take what you teach them along the road with them. Show them that years from now, what the other kids have will no longer be wanted and that you can use that money for things they need instead of wants.
@livewyre (2450)
25 Jan 10
No, I'm not really mad - I made it look like that as I thought it would get more responses . My real moan is that we are forced to make decisions about what our child can do or not do, simply because what is seemingly the irresponsibility of other parents... Parenting is hard enough - you are quite right though, I may even be a bit smug about how terrifically responsible I am or 'mean' depending on which side of the parenting/child fence you are....
@stormygrl (761)
• United States
25 Jan 10
This is completely true,my teenagers have trac phones and always want to change them to keep up with friend's phone but I'm not buying new ones if they work fine.Children at 7 years old do not need to be on facebook,maybe they were just playing a game on a siblings account. Yea there are too many games and they keep pushing all this new gaming systems, new cell phones that are an outrageous prices.My daughter goes to school where a senior drives a hummer her parents got her after she wrecked her car,not her fault but still a Hummer!,and spent thousands on a prom dress last year,must be nice. I think the parent's are just show offs.
@livewyre (2450)
25 Jan 10
I guess they thought she would be safer in a Hummer - seriously though, that is truly outrageous. The child on Facebook was the eldest sibling at seven - I am guessing he was signed on using his parents account, I also presume that he was doing it with their full knowledge. I know he was playing a harmless game, but there are damn good reasons why kids that age should not have access to a facebook account (the lad was completely unsupervised, not only that, he also had a friend round to play with him). I hear you about the cell phones too, I am afraid, my child will have a very ordinary phone when the time comes, and will have to live with it!! To be honest, the examples you mention there are so outrageous, even her mates must realise there is something up with that! The 'phone thing is a bit more difficult to get around, because your kids always assume you can afford that kind of junk - they know they can't have a Hummer
@zandi458 (28102)
• Malaysia
25 Jan 10
I am a disciplinarian when it comes to parenting. I set limits to my children wants. Not everything they asked for are granted unless they are very necessary. They never have the privilege of having cell phones when they were still in school not until they started working. Having a facebook account or any social site accounts was a remote idea for them. Now that they are in their adulthood, they are very thankful for having a strict mom that shaped them up in their behavioral conducts in daily life. This is the scenario whereby we should not allow our children to control us as once they see that they can manipulate the adults it will be hard for parents to discipline them. The nagging and crying will only raise our blood pressure. We should never bow to their demands.
@livewyre (2450)
25 Jan 10
My first instinct is the very same as yours, however I sometimes think that I am harsh because that was how I was brought up. I try hard not to bring my hang-ups into my parenting, so sometimes I have to catch myself (or at least my wife does it for me!) and just check that I have not said 'No' when 'Yes' would not have been such a big deal. However, it is true that discipline is very good for children, and for them, learning to cope with disappointment is a very valuable life lesson.
1 person likes this
@livewyre (2450)
25 Jan 10
Yes I agree, our experiences are very different from what children are going through now - obviously, some principles are still the same, but the range of stuff that kids have now are mind-boggling.
@zandi458 (28102)
• Malaysia
25 Jan 10
Sometimes we cannot apply what we went through during our growing up stage. It just doesn't fit in to this modern society anymore. But we must remember that they are in their formative years and we should exert our authority on them, may not be too much but a little will bring good result in the end.
@syankee525 (6261)
• United States
26 Jan 10
i agree with you, but. you need to teach your child just because the other parents are buying and giving thier friends whatever they want dont mean nothing at all. i used to tell my kids, well i am not your friends parnets. you get what you need and if you want what they have then you will do chores around the house to earn money or call your grandparnets up and do work for them to be able to buy that to me by doing this my kids learn a leason of ok i am not handed things i need to work for things i want.
@livewyre (2450)
27 Jan 10
Yes sure, we do talk to her about it. The requests sometimes come and go, but this one for a particular hand held games unit kept coming back. My wife and I discussed it, but I couldn't entertain spending that much money on a Christmas present, so I said I would give her an amount every month which means that together with her Christmas money, she will probably have enough in about six months time - that way she will learn that such things only come about if we save hard - even though in reality we have made it very easy for her. My parents did the same with my first proper bicycle (I was probably about twelve), and I appreciated the value of that bike immensely - if I think about it now, the feel and smell of that bike when we first picked it up from the shop is still a vivid memory (more than thirty years later...) and the feeling of pleasure and satisfaction at paying for it was so real it is burned into my memory. To be fair, my parents found every excuse to give me money so I could get enough for the bike, and I feel their excitement now when I see my little one getting excited about the toy she will get - although there is every chance that once we have enough, she may well want something else (and in fact has asked for other things already - to which the easy answer is 'once you have paid for your game, you can save up for something else'...)
• Philippines
26 Jan 10
I know enjoyable facebook games are necessary but I find it addictive and has the potential to make the player lazy whether temporary or permanent. Games are fun but they have their advantages and drawbacks. I think a child can play how much he wanted as long as he or she does all of his assignments first. At that young age they deserve to play since during adulthood no more of it since they have to work. I also sense that a girl will always get what games she wants than a boy is thats why the girls are happier than boys these days. Yet boys do not have trouble not having games at all. But for me I would always think about the needs of the kids instead of their wants.
@livewyre (2450)
26 Jan 10
Hi Cowboy - yes of course needs are a priority above wants you are right. My point about FB is not the games themselves (my little one plays games on reputable sites), it is the fact that FB themselves say the site is not suitable for kids under 14. Once they have said that, then of course they have no responsibility to 'protect' younger children from predators, because of course the younger ones are not supposed to be there. The games are not the issue, it is that fact that vulnerable children are left unsupervised logged on to a site that is not properly protected for them (and one that is targeted by predators - I'm starting to sound paranoid about this now...)
@redex1 (40)
25 Jan 10
I feel it is important to let you're child experience new things in life. Lots of things happen on facebook, so from a personal point of view if and when i decide to have kids i would use a sensible treatement. I would let them go on facebook however only when i can do my job and keep a eye on them as well. This would be becuase i don't want them to get in contact with people who will have a bad influence on them in the future.