BIG Problem - Need Serious Input
By Amber
@AmbiePam (92789)
United States
May 3, 2010 3:11pm CST
I really think my uncle is going to end up murdering my grandmother. This may be a long post, so if you don't like reading long ones, you better stop now. Let me give you the background information. My grandparents had two kids, my uncle who is 54, and my mom who is four years younger. My grandfather is deceased, but my grandmother is still alive. They live in houses right next door to each other. He made choices early in life that led him down a path he should never have been on. Three marriages later (he doesn't think he was responsible for any of the breakups, but in my opinion, he is definitely responsible for two of them, not the last one), and three kids later who are now enstranged, he is spiraling out of control. He was addicted to narcotics in his 30s. Went to rehab, got better. Was depressed even before he was addicted to prescription drugs.
We think he smoked pot in his 30s along with drinking and abusing prescription drugs, which combined is a disaster waiting to happen. But I'm going to have to skip a lot here. He has health problems, real ones that landed him on disability this past year. But before that, he had gotten back on prescription drugs. Before my grandpa died, he was doing weird things, he would say weird things for days. Then a couple of days would pass and he would be totally sober. However, he did lie and tell his entire family that he suffered from a very serious disease that we found out later he did not have. He stole medication from his 2nd wife's father, his own father, and one weekend when I visited my grandparents right after I had my wisdom teeth pulled, he also stole the small amount of Loritab I had been prescribed.
All through this my grandmother has made excuses for him. She admits what he does, but she finds excuses. She has stood up to him before, said things he needed to hear, but when the going gets rough, she rolls over and just says he is her son, and she loves him. Well sure she loves him! I love him too. But I'm not blind to what he is capable of.
I found out today that my uncle is not allowed to stay in the house next door to my grandmother anymore. He has to stay in HER house. Why? After weeks of hearing him scream and yell in his house at night (apparently to no one), his neighbors called the cops. They went into his house, he allowed them to search, and they found no illegal drugs (which doesn't surprise me, he's always been able to get enough prescription drugs to get a good high). They told my grandmother he probably had to stay with her, because if he did this one more time, they would have to arrest him. So he is now staying in her home.
He has barked at his kids before when they came to visit him. He smacked my mom on the back right after she had a procedure done, and he has done other things like that, with absolutely no memory of it.
We all think he should be institutionalized. Except my grandma doesn't want to make him do it, doesn't want to try to talk him into it. Before my grandfather died, she woke up and found him in her and my grandfather's bedroom, just standing there. He asked why they were sleeping in the middle of the afternoon. IT WAS 3AM!
In short, we don't know how many narcotics he is on. He combines it with alcohol. And there is no doubt in my mind that he WILL eventually kill my grandma if something doesn't change. He loves her, but when he is high, he is not the son who loves her. He is just crazy and mean.
We live 2 and 1/2 hours away from my grandma and uncle. My parents go down to see her as often as possible, but my dad has to work, and my mom has been REALLY sick. The stress of seeing them makes her even worse. My sister does live about 30 minutes away, and she has been sweet enough to go over 4 days a week to check on her and spend time with her (my sister works part time). Sometimes my sister's husband comes along to, to try to spend time with my Uncle and give my grandmother a break from him.
What do we do? We are doing everything we can think of to help out, but he needs to be committed. Is there any way we can put that in motion without his consent? How do you think we could persuade my grandmother to go along with this? She knows she needs to do it, but trying to talk her into it makes her close up. What in the world should we do?
12 people like this
17 responses
@katsmeow1213 (28716)
• United States
3 May 10
Really tough situation, and unfortunately your grandma is being an enabler. He'll never straighten up while he has an enabler in his life. The only thing I can see being done is having a serious sit down with grandma and explaining that if she really loved him she'd make him get help of some sort.. force him if she has to. She needs to see it the way the rest of you do. Other than that I'm not really sure because I've never been in this type of situation. I personally would cut all ties to a person like your uncle, even if they are family.
5 people like this
@GardenGerty (160696)
• United States
4 May 10
You know, Rose may be right. You may need adult protective services to help out with protecting your grandmother. The agency there is DHS, but I am sure you know that. If someone makes a complaint they are obligated to at least investigate the complaint. I also know that everywhere they are short of workers and cutting back. If your mom was not ill, I would ask grandma to come stay with her for awhile, just for a break. Maybe it would be good to ask grandma to come stay with her for awhile BECAUSE mom is ill, I do not know.
4 people like this
@jillhill (37354)
• United States
3 May 10
I am not sure how an intervention works....but I think the family can all go to him and get him committed.....As far as any other way the best thing to happen might be he gets arrested and put in rehab by the authorities.....I feel for you! What a mess!
5 people like this
@gabs8513 (48686)
• United Kingdom
3 May 10
I am not to sure Ambie, here in the UK you could involve a Social Worker
I actually think that Spark would be the best Person to ask to be honest as I know she advised me on something before Christmas so try to get hold of Sparks
I am so sorry you have all this going on
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
4 May 10
I'm not real sure how you'd go about committing him. I know that with my ex's brother, he was undiagnosed schitzophrenic. He got in trouble with the law and his parents went into court and stated concerns regarding his mental health. He was evaluated and diagnosed and treated. I think you really need to talk to a lawyer to know your options.
3 people like this
@GardenGerty (160696)
• United States
20 May 10
I know you said your mom was going to go see her mom, has that happened? How are things going on that front?
@cyrus123 (6363)
• United States
3 May 10
This sounds like a very tough situation and I wish I knew what to tell you. I'm sorry youall have to deal with this uncle. He sounds very bad. I think he needs to be institutionalized, myself, and I hope you can finally talk your grandmother into having him committed eventually. I know she loves him and that he loves her but it would be better for all involved. She needs to think about her safety. I just hope and pray that youall will be able to work something out.
4 people like this
@sleepylittlerose (1648)
• United States
3 May 10
Contact the local mental health facility. There is probably an agency within the mental health department that deals with the elderly. Inform them of the situation just as you have described here and tell them your fears about your uncle harming your grandmother. If nothing else they can help send someone out to check on her occasionally. If they find the problem bad enough they can require that he be committed to a facility. It falls under the same realm as child protective services; but for the elderly. (At least that is the case in my state.)
5 people like this
@lingli_78 (12822)
• Australia
4 May 10
well, this is indeed a very serious problem and i feel sorry for you... i will have a serious chat with your grandma about your uncle if i am in your position and get him the help he needed as soon as possible... as you say, he can be a great danger to your grandma and even kill her when he is 'high' because he doesn't realise it... so this situation can't just be ignored... hopefully you can sort out the situation soon... good luck... take care and have a nice day...
3 people like this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
4 May 10
WOw that is totally weird 3 am and him thinking it afternoon.
He does need to go back in to rehab and maybe should be tested for Manic depression.
I really dont know how to get around doing things to help but he does need it .
Can ya talk to his Doctors sounds like he has more than one maybe they can get him into rehab and away from your grandma.
They do set time frames for them to stay in rehab but not sure ya can do that if he dont want help wish I could help you more!
2 people like this
@Trace86 (5030)
• United States
4 May 10
There are agencies that you can call depending on where you live. There is a department of Senior Services, Ombudsman services and maybe even DCFS. Let them know that you are really fearful for your grandmother and about your uncle's history. Have all the other family members call too. If they hear it enough, they may think, "hmmm.... it might be a good idea to go check this out!". Maybe someone can sign commitment papers for a 72 hour psychiatric hold for evaluation. Good luck and I hope your grandmother is safe.
2 people like this
@snowy22315 (180805)
• United States
4 May 10
Yes, you can but first you need to tell your grandmother what you are going to do and have her get on board with it. It will be a lot easier if she will admit what he is doing and the fact he is out of control. Yes, contact your local mental health facility. Ask to speak to the crisis counselor. In this state you have to get a warrant from the magistrate to proceed with an involuntary commitment. The MH facility will tell you what to do. Good for you for taking action.
2 people like this
@JJ4Ever (4693)
• United States
4 May 10
This is a really tricky situation, but you obviously see the need for something to be done. It is stressing everyone out and putting your grandmother at serious risk. I don't think she even knows the danger she is in with your uncle living in her home. Who knows what she could wake up to! That is not to say your uncle is a bad person. He's just made some horrible decisions that have turned into habits, which have turned into patterns in his life. Once they are patterns, they are really hard to break. I think, as you mentioned, an institution is the best way to go. I know your grandma loves her son, but I don't know that she should be the person to make the ultimate decision. She may be a little biased and may have participated in enabling your uncle to become the way he is now. I know he probably has good days and bad days, but it seems to me like your grandma has a haze over her eyes that is there when she wants it to be so she can conveniently ignore all the hurt your uncle has caused. If you can't reason with your grandma by telling her that you all want the best for your uncle and for her (and that getting him some help is the best way to do that), then you have to make the decision without her. She is only allowing the situation to get worse, so if she doesn't consent to what you are doing, I would say go forward with it anyway only because this is what is best for everyone. As far as having your uncle's consent to put him in a home or institution that will help him, I'm not sure how the procedural aspects are handled, but you could get an attorney involved. I know there are also ways of calling someone in who can determine whether or not your uncle is of a sound mind to be able to make this decision for himself, (which I am convinced most of the time he is not in his right mind to make the decision). I don't know if you would need a Power of Attorney for your uncle, but maybe that is something else that will need to be done. I don't know all the legal aspects that will come into play, but I definitely agree with you that something needs to be done. Your grandma is not providing a very good solution to the problem, but your mom is directly related - she is the sister to the man involved. I think she has a say too! I know you mentioned she has been ill recently, but maybe she could become a Power of Attorney for your uncle and watch over the proceedings from here on out. I don't know what condition your mom is in to be able to handle something like this because I know there will be a lot involved. I hate to push a burden on someone that I know is going to stress them out, but I think in the long run putting your uncle in an institution will provide an ultimate solution. Another thing you could tell your grandma is that (if she is of good health and can get out of the house to visit), she can see your uncle whenever she wants. He would be getting the help he so desperately needs. Nurses could watch over him and give him his prescriptions at the appropriate times so he would not become addicted to anything. It's so sad that it's come to this, but I can appreciate that you are trying to figure out what is best for your family. Good for you!
2 people like this
@AmbiePam (92789)
• United States
4 May 10
I know, that if we had to go to court, and prove his instability, we could do it. His three daughters have a ton of things they could testify too, weird behavior. We all do. My mom has always had a good relationship with my grandma. My grandmother listens to her. And my mom has talked to her many times about this. This weekend I think my mom is going to try to get her to go further in making him do something about his life. Although my mom is younger than her brother, my grandparents made her executor of their estate a LONG time ago. They know/knew they couldn't trust him. With my grandpa now gone, we are more anxious about her being the only one there with him.
1 person likes this
@JJ4Ever (4693)
• United States
4 May 10
That's excellent news. I just hope your mom doesn't have a great deal of stress added over this situation. It was a good move for your grandparents to make her executor of their estate. My mom became involved in a situation with her mom and sister. My aunt was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis several years ago, so now my grandma takes care of her full time - my aunt has been bedridden for quite a while. I can tell my grandma's health is declining because she's 80 and still has to care for her daughter full time. It's hard because my mom still has half her kids at home. My mom is in the same position as your mom. She is responsible for making sure my aunt has proper insurance to pay for her care as well as making sure my grandma doesn't get overwhelmed. I know for a long time, my mom and grandma had to come together to try to figure out what to do with my aunt, whether it be in-home care or putting her in a facility...not to mention finding the money to afford whatever they decided to do. I think it all worked out in the end, but it still can become an inconvenience here and there, and I don't know what my grandma must go through to care for my aunt on a daily basis. We don't see my grandma as much now that she has to care for my aunt all the time. Thankfully my cousin and his wife (my aunt's oldest son) lives in town and has taken some of the stress off the other members of the family while at the same time he gets to see his mom at least once a week. I think it's great when family members come together to help each other out, so if your mom has to take on this responsibility, she will need plenty of support! I wish you and your family the best and sure hope everything works out for everyone.
@ANTIQUELADY (36440)
• United States
4 May 10
aMBIE, I AM SO SORRY U HAVE THIS TO WORRY ABOUT. The sad thing is it is hard to get anyone to get involved till something bad happens & i'm like u i would be very worried about my grandmother. This reminds me so much of my father & his son, my half brother who i don't claim. He did everything to my dad & dad was always making excuses for him no matter what he did. It was disgusting. I don't know if it would do any good or not but i would be talking to everyone i could to see if i could get your uncle commited. He sounds like a very dangerous person & your grandmother is probably in danger. I would talk to the police, a lawyer to see what your options are, his doctor, everyone. i believe surely a lawyer could advise u to what steps u need to take to get him committed. Good luck w/this & i hope u can get something done before something bad does happen.
2 people like this
@paula27661 (15811)
• Australia
5 May 10
I don’t know what the mental health situation is like in your country. Here in Australia it used to be good and someone like your uncle could have been reported for an assessment and committed to a psychiatric hospital due to the fact that he could be a danger to himself or others and that would at least start the ball rolling towards possibly obtaining some proper help. These days the system is depleted of funds and they are not so quick to admit a mentally ill person so the poor relatives are deemed as ‘carers’ and are literally stuck with a person they are not equipped to deal with. If there is any chance to contact the mental health authorities and have your uncle hospitalised that would e the way to go but this would be up to your grandmother to stop enabling this man. She is the one who is in danger of his violent outbursts but she is also the one who can decide to make major chances. Is there a social worker you can contact who could talk to your grandmother in regards to your uncle getting the help he so desperately needs?
2 people like this
@catdla1 (6005)
• United States
4 May 10
If you, or some one in your family, has not been in contact with Al-Anon you definitely should. And, as quickly as possible. They will let you know what resources are available to help your grandmother, and your uncle too.
Through United Way, there may also be programs that offer assistance which they can point you to. Good luck, it's not easy.
3 people like this
@Lindalinda (4111)
• Canada
6 May 10
You are in a tough spot. I don't know what the laws are where you live, so it is hard to say which step you should take next. It seems to me you should contact the mental health clinic in your area, have a counseller come and talke to your grandmother, then convince her to take any necessary steps to provide a safe environment for herself and your uncle. Then maybe the meeting should be between yourselves, the uncle, the grandmother and the social worker from the mental health organization to get an agreement what the next step should be.
1 person likes this
@frontvisions101 (16043)
• Philippines
4 May 10
It seemed to me that your grandma is confident enough to handle your uncle. Why not let her do what she wants? She may have a plan or something.
