Do you agree that everyone should be made to show their face in public?

Thank you for your comment. Personally, I find teenagers in hoodies more threatening than Muslim women. I find the burka and niqab quite acceptable because I understand the reason for wearing them. In teenage culture, however, the hidden face is not a question of modesty (unless you can call not wanting to be identified a kind of modesty!)

If you see a teenager with a hoodie, you can tell from his/her facial expression whether or not you should be concerned. I think that's probably part of nannacroc's reasoning. We gather people's emotions and incentives from mainly facial expression and you can not have that if somoeone has their face covered completely. There is also the matter of when they are talking. I can not understand someone whose mouth is covered because their voice is muffled and I can't hear them properly. If a teen in a hoodie shouts abuse at you, you know exactly what they are saying! (But even that is a generalisation, and a wrong one at that. I know plenty of people who wear hoodies, caps, motorbike helmets, etc. and they are all perfectly nice people.

I am sorry that you were asked to pay. I am sure that, when I posted this discussion, the article was free. It's possible that they put up an article for a few days and then charge for it.

Thank you for your comment. I'm sorry that you feel threatened by dress customs which derive from modesty. I think it depends very much on who is covering their face. Am I being sexist, I wonder, if I say I would feel less threatened by a woman who covers her face than by a man? Communication is a different matter. If someone has difficulty is understanding a person, it is not rude to tell them so politely and to expect them to adjust in some way (either by speaking more clearly or by removing the veil). The problem is that a number of people want to make a political issue out of their supposed right to do as they please. I see that as the wrong-doing rather than the act of wearing or not wearing a veil.

Since there are (it says) maybe 100 women in Holland who choose to cover their faces, it seems that the proposed law is not intended to be anti-Muslim. I think it's more in response to the increased need for security and the use of video security.

I too, find it difficult to decide. There are people who definitely pose a threat by covering their heads/faces but I would never think of a Muslim woman in that way!

That's part of the problem I have. I know people who wear "hoodies" are often associated with crime and this is why people have a problem with them and not veils. However, normally if someone is wearing a hoodie or a baseball cap, or most kinds of head covering, it is polite to take it off when inside and people tend to become suspicious if it is not taken off. My argument with this is that if a person wears a cap or a hood, you can still see their face but if someone covers their face then, as you say, you can not tell sometimes if they are even male or female, let alone anything else. Wearing the veil for a Muslim isn't religious. There is something in the Quran about modest dress which some people take to mean covering everything. Only a very small minority of Muslims actually wear the full cover and most of them here in Britain at least, are young British born Muslims who are only doing it for the same reasons as kids who wear hoodies, ie. as a form of rebellion and "individuality". As I think has been said somewhere, in most civilised Western countries, if your face is completely covered, it shows hostility, whether deliberate or not.

Something that was mentioned on the radio the other day, and I do find quite thought provoking. How do you even know when all you can see is the eyes if you are looking at a male or female and if they are genuinely Muslim.

I agree that people should have a right to wear what they want provided that it doesn't offend or threaten someone else. We have laws already which govern dress (or the lack of it) in public. If you were to go to certain Muslim countries you would be advised to cover your arms, although I believe they rarely arrest visitors for what they consider unseemly display of flesh. If there should be a law forbidding people to cover their faces, should I be allowed to wear a beard?

by the way as a muslim who sometimes wears a hijab (not often ) i find these extremly offensive