Anyone else confused about what is going on in Wisconsin?

As a Wisconsinite I chalk it up to people being spoiled and whining, not wanting to pay their fair share as others do.

The politicians are acting like spoiled little brats. That pretty much sums it up.

something to bear in mind, if they cant get a hold of the union issue, then they will be laying off teachers. They should take their lumps and be grateful they still have a job.

The only thing I'm actually confused about is whether Wisconsin really has a budget deficit and whether or not it's true it only went into deficit when the new governor gave out tax cuts to the rich. I've been hearing they'd been "sitting on a huge surplus". This is not only about teachers, far from it and it really has nothing to do with saving money. It's pure, unadulterated POLITICS from the word go. The new GOP Governor and majority in the Wisconsin legislature want to protect themselves politically. The best way for them to do that is to bust the unions. Since the ridiculous Citizens Unite4d Supreme Court decision the GOP has a decided advantage in fundraising with virtually all of the largest corporations, not to mention groups such as Karl Rove's, giving to them. If all or most of the major unions are busted the Democrats will have nobody on their side. It's especially interesting to note that while police and firefighters are exempt from the bill taking away the right to collective bargaining for anything other than pay, other public safety workers such as Corrections officers, Conservation Wardens, Capitol Police, Forest Rangers, Department of Justice Agents, and others are not. What is the difference? The former donated mostly to Republicans while the latter gave primarily to Democrats. What this bill would do is take away the right of collective bargaining for everything except pay from most state and municipal employees. Nobody has said the workers, including teachers, aren't willing to make sacrifices like everyone else has had to. They've said they're willing to give on health care benefits and pensions. They don't want to lost the right to negotiate. These workers earn an average of slightly over $50,000 per year which is lower than the average private sector worker in Wisconsin. The majority of these state employees have four year college degrees. The average worker would lose between $10,000 and $12,000 per year under the governor's proposal. How many people would take that sitting down? As for taking away from the kids, I don't know the specifics in Wisconsin but I know in most places they've already taken a lot away from the kids. Annie

I haven't watched a lot of the demonstrations, but what little I've seen/heard, I'm losing empathy for the teachers. I agree, these teachers aren't out there for the kids and the kids demonstrating really upset me... They didn't even know why they were out there carrying signs. Man, I "hate" unions... I'd also hope the Governor/Legislature is taking a hard look at administrative costs. That's what our Governor is doing. We'll be consolidating districts...schools may not be closing, but administrations will be consolidated. I'm working on the second year of frozen annuity. And I'm working on the second year of increased health care premiums (plus a lot of other increases). I'm not happy about it, but I don't intend to drive to Santa Fe and bi*ch.

Two things not mentioned: 1) the bill would strip them of their collective bargaining rights. 2) already negotiated items would be undone and teachers would lose things like overtime pay. Most people who work for private employers would not stand for working 50-hour weeks and being paid for 40 hours; why should teachers?

A few corrections from a Wisconsinite... ~It's not just the teachers, it's all state employees, and many local employees (except fire and police). ~The workers would lose most of their collective bargaining.. The reason for this is, it would be impossible to reduce the cost of government if all the unions have to do is put the expenses back in the next contract cycle. The part that has the union thugs pissing in their pizza... it would remove the requirement to join the unions. It would also remove the requirement of non union members to pay the equivalent of union dues. Workers would also get the opportunity to choose whether to be a union or non union shop every year. In fairness, once Walker was elected, the union thugs saw the writing on the wall. All of the sudden they were all for making union members pay into their own pensions and medical benefits.

They are all acting like a bunch of sniveling, whiny little brats, politicians and teachers alike. With the economy as it is there are many people who haven't gotten raises in a very long time and many who don't have any kinds of benefits. Like you, I agree that the teachers deserve more but now isn't the time for the extras. Over here last year a whole group of them in an elementary school did not get the raises that they were hoping for. They reacted by refusing to stay after school or participate in any of the extra-curricular activities. Well, their pouting didn't get them what they wanted. The parents all jumped in and took over all these extras. I get that they are disappointed but suck it up. They are very lucky to be drawing a paycheck every week. They are setting very poor examples for the kids they claim to care so much about.

For the amount of education they need to become teachers, you could say they are not paid very well. On the other hand, teachers have other benefits not available in some other professions. Many teachers enjoy the benefit of having summers off and the same vacations as their kids. It's not the way to amass a fortune, but it's not starvation pay, either. I had to support two kids on a salary that was less than the average teacher's salaries in most states. I paid my share of my health insurance premiums out of that pay and I had to buy vacation days to cover all the kids' sick days as well as pay for after school care and summer programs. This is the way it is for a lot of people. So I don't think the school day hours and yearly calendar is a benefit that we can completely overlook. I appreciate that teachers need adequate compensation if we hope to attract qualified people to the field. But I don't think they are paid so poorly that it is unthinkable to require them to contribute to their own health insurance premiums or their own pensions.

I am not a State Union Member (Not sure if this is SEIU or not haven't read much news on this issue just whats been posted up here.) I am a member of the Teamsters which deals in a multiple areas but our current contract our Union made concessions to the company. That weren't to our Benefits but to our pay and how our pay increases work. I think it all depends on which Union and what company you are a part of. SEIU for example is a Giant Union which means they have a ton of power. Also they are stating that this is about their right to a Collective Bargaining agreement. Which is a right of Unionized workers is to have a Contract with their Employer stating what is to be expected of both parties. The one I am under is that Management will not do a Union Job unless an "act of God" happens. Or that I am to work safely and follow OSHA Regulations.

Well I'd like to see a Wisconsin teacher come in here and give us their two cents' worth. We were warned a couple of months ago by the New Jersey governor that the states were ALL going to going into financial crises. I see that the circus is now beginning. What do the citizens do when their state can't pay its bills anymore? Go to the statehouse and demonstrate? Wonder what good they think that's going to do? Ole' weepy Boehner says the U.S. is broke. So the federal government is probably going to see some protesters on the Capitol steps too before long. The whole world is broke as far as I see it. And prices are going up on everything from gasoline to oranges. Instead of demonstrating, protesting and getting all in a panic, it's time to suck it up and make do. Those of us without jobs have been doing that for years now. We can start our own gardens, barter for goods, ride bikes, cut down on the delivery pizza and make our own meals, and start living within our means.

"the kid card" Just because I'm a curious kinda guy, I wonder how many of these people picketing also wanted tax increases on people making X dollars a year? I'd really be interested to know. Nobody wants to pay extra for something. So that I can understand. But when you look at the benefits of public vs. private, it's really, really shocking. All the nonsense aside, a system like that CANNOT PROPERLY FUNCTION, because it costs too much taxpayer money to keep giving public employees more money. Having public employees "pay into" something is misleading. They'll effectively just be taking home fewer private employees' dollars at the end of the day. So I can see being a little peeved with it, but aren't they smart enough to realize that there are limited options out there?

These are the average teachers salaries in Wisconsin as per http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/wisconsin.html: •Green Bay: $55,110 •Kenosha: $68,400 •Madison: $50,770 •Milwaukee: $54,620 •Racine: $49,710 Add in free insurance, free pensions, they make quite a tidy sum over their lifetimes. Yes, they are important, but they are not the best by any stretch of the imagination, as each year, the United States sinks lower and lower on the learning scale for our students. Far too many complete high school unable to spell or do simply math without the use of a calculator. Even more cannot write a simple sentence. Teachers who themselves, often have atrocious spelling, cannot be fired because they unions interfere. This is what is going on in Wisconsin. Those who know if they have to get raises through merit increases, know they won't make it and will be fired. The union bosses have brought in busload after busload of union members to fill in the gaps that would be left if only those Wisconsin teachers were out in the streets. Many of the teachers actually would be thrilled to get around $500 back in their pockets from not having to pay union dues. Many of them are smart enough to realize that Wisconsin's governor is trying to keep the whole state from going bankrupt - which it legally cannot do without the blessings of the Feds. Our president is once again sticking his nose in State business, while ignoring the bonfire in his own backyard that is growing out of control. Since the unions gave over a billion dollars to the Democratic party, he feels compelled to accuse Wisconsin's Republican governor of Union Busting. That is another thing going on in Wisconsin. The union bosses don't want to lose their sweet lives either. They make a bundle off the union dues and decide where to spend it without taking into consideration that not all forced union members are Democrats. That is also what is going on in Wisconsin. As for the Democratic Senators who took themselves out of state and into a bar, that should be enough to get rid of them in the next election. They were voted in to work, not run at the first sign of something they didn't like. Here's hoping most voters remember their actions at the voting booth. By the way, in comparison: The average Policeman's salary is $47,000, with a high of $64,000 in the Virgin Islands. They put their lives on the line every day and yet, make less than the teachers who have declared an unscheduled holiday for the children they are supposed to be teaching. So far, they are teaching them that the children's education doesn't matter half as much as the union bosses' commands. But then, the top union boss once said (paraphrased) "I'll worry about the children's needs when they can pay union dues." Evidently, they aren't paying dues yet. P.S. Are you aware that when a teacher is accused of things that would get the normal person fired, if they are taken out of service, they are still paid full salary, even if another person has to be hired in their place?

It was never about students, or even teachers really. It's about Unions and control. If the Unions allow these cuts, it will be admission of a loss of control over the system. They can't allow that. They would rather cut hundreds of teacher jobs, than allow that loss of control, and weakening of the unions.

they do that here too.every year they strike for more and more,right before the school year,and these are people making 60-90K per year with big fat retirement plans. they should pay more of their healthcare-they can afford it a lot more ably than someone making minimum wage. our teachers have some of the worst test scores,and that's not exactly a bargaining chip in my view.

It's really sad to think that these are the types of people who are teaching our children. It's almost as if they have been looking and waiting for a fight. Maybe the protests in Egypt and all over the world, by Moslems got them fired up. There are real threats to be protesting for Heavens sake, they just change history books in Texas. Islam is about to take over the world and their all worried about having to pay like the rest of us... Unions and the liberal media are destroying this country...

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