W For Mystery? (Yes, You Read That Right... It Is Not a Typo)
By theSids
@thesids (22180)
Bhubaneswar, India
April 21, 2011 3:45am CST
Hi lotters
Every language seems to have a special Alphabet. I know four languages - English, Hindi, Oriya and Bengali. Each of these has a special Alphabet -
English : "W" - words like What, when, where, why, who - All bases for questions. The same applies to "K" (the equivalents in other 3 languages) that reciprocate these words from English.
Even another one - "We" - if we do a vertical transpose of "WE" we get "ME" - one of the most common words in daily language.
Now the question is why this special treatment to a special alphabet? Is it that they did not find much words for "W"? Nah, that can not be a genuine reason as "Z" and "X" seem to have lesser words.
So the question that I want to discuss is - Why this discrimnation or special treatment to a Letter? And if you are a non-English, does your language too has such a letter which gets special treatment?
Note: This is not to make fun of any language, I respect all languages but I want to know if anyone thinks this way or even other languages have this speciality.
Your Views Please.
Cheers,
theSids.
5 people like this
17 responses
@hardworkinggurl (37063)
• United States
21 Apr 11
Hi thesids
Who, What, When, Where, Why.
Are the 5 business beginnings during an interview. My understanding is that W was derived from the 2 V's. That's all I know to be honest about anything related to a W.
I am fluent in both English and Spanish. I am also good about Silence, lol
Here are the additional letters in the Spanish language which makes for the additional 2 in our alphabet:
Ñ & ll
I am assuming we use the extra two letters because using the N or L does not emphasize the pronunciation when utilizing them. The Ñ sounds like EÑIE stressing the N. The LL sounds like double elle, meaning double L.
Outside of this my friend I am not aware of reasoning why we use our language outside of saying that those of us who use it, understand it and use it well, with it's intense and purpose.
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
21 Apr 11
http://www.takeourword.com/Issue093.html
Yes thesids. It is true. My mother tongue is Tamil and many of these questioning words meaning "why?,what,where,how' start with variations of the same alphabet[we have short and long sounds like how you have in Hindi kaise,kesar].Only today this similarity struck me. The beauty of languages!
But I feel that you may have to look at the sound[pronunciation] and not just go by spelling. it is the sound that makes the interrogation here. And that vertical transposition may be just a coincidence.
Another thing that I felt was that since many Indo-European languages do have some distant similarities and derivations from each other such cases may also be found in some other words. E.G.
English father mother
Ancient Greek pateras meter
Latin pater mater
French père mère
Italian padre madre
Romanian tata mama
Irish athir mathir
Welsh tad mam
Gothic atta or fadar aithei
Old Norse fathir mothir
Danish fader moder
Old English fæder modor
Dutch vader moeder
Old High German fater muotar
Sanskrit pitar matar
Avestan (ancient Persian) pitar matar
"http://www.takeourword.com/Issue093.html"
This is a different case altogether but I have given the link to
elucidate my statement and how these words are similar.
Now, regarding your question also I feel that if we go deep into the subject we would find that these words starting with a similar alphabet[producing the sound ] would have some technical base behind it .I tried GOogling for it but I am not able to pinpoint the exact thing ; I do not know many languages .I just know two. And in my language I do have this similarity. But I still feel it should be considered from the pronunciation and the vowel sound may have something to do with it.
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
22 Apr 11
THanks Vandana! My instinctive feeling was that words would have been like this due to the vowel sound .As I said earlier, 'why, where, who, wherefore,what ' --these interrogative words [if you notice the way the lips form the sound----you just say the words and watch how your lips form when you make the sound] are similar.Even 'how' can be included though it does not start with 'w'.Essentially it is the vowel sound here.In conclusion I would feel that the sound has something to do with it.In my
language too I find this ;if you noticce your Telugu words, you can add info here.
@krajibg (11922)
• Guwahati, India
21 Apr 11
Hello chhotu,
Seems now I have to open up my linguistic kits. There is no other language save English that so flexible that you turn and twist and get new meanings. Still for many people English is a difficult language.
Like you I too speak Assamese, Bengali, English, Hindi, Nepali, Marathi and a little bit of Bhjpuri.
The letters which are very frequently used in English is also used equally in Assamese and Hind. In English "S" has the most number of spellings and "Z" has the least.
This would be a good discussion if we post different part at different time.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
21 Apr 11
Hi Rajib Da
First I am honored to read "Chhotu" - made my day
Well, yes, I think I got too much on this single discussion. The part that was what I wanting to really find out - "Why do almost all the Question Words start with W"...
As in Hindi, Oriya, Bengali - the question words start with "K"'s equivalent eg. Kab, kothai etc
@krajibg (11922)
• Guwahati, India
21 Apr 11
Yes this is interesting. Al the questions starting with a particular phoneme. Marathi - kuthe, kadi,
Nepali - kaha, kaile
Assamese - kot, ketia,Hindi and Bangla you have cited already.
@jaiho2009 (39141)
• Philippines
21 Apr 11
dear sids
Special treatment for a letter?
I don't know any illness regarding with "letters"
and i don't know any hospitals that treat an ill-letters too
it's Thursday and i am d*mn crazy
bear with your Di ...can't think better this time :(
@Sreekala (34312)
• India
21 Apr 11
grrrrrrrrrrn you three people are already confused me, is there any treatment for that....
@jaiho2009 (39141)
• Philippines
21 Apr 11
i will be waiting for that next topic...
as i am also writing my next topic...i just posted one.
i write two topics while in dreams but i lost the other one...
i will try to recall and post it later
@allknowing (135935)
• India
22 Apr 11
Please don't look at the letter 'W' in isolation but look at the English language as such. English language is a mystery. Look at the way some words are pronounced. I could give you millions of examples. Bouquet has the t silent but not the word Banquet!See the verb pronounce and see the noun pronunciation - compare the spelling!
@gsaintiny (69)
• United States
22 Apr 11
Hey All,
Well, with bouquet, there's no mystery as to why the T is silent. Bouquet is a loan word from French.
I'll say what many linguists seem afraid to say about English. It is not what linguists properly refer to as a language but is, rather, a creole. England is an island that was conquered at various points and adopted vocabulary as a result, while maintaining an ongoing liguistic structure. That's the typical course for a creole.
The Normans invaded England.
They lived as lords, while the English people basically served them as serfs. Thus, the animal slaughtered had an English name (cow, pig, goat). But the meat eaten had a French name: beef (The animal is a "beauf" in French), pork (The animal is a "porc" in French--the C is not pronounced), mutton (The animal is a "mouton" in French--the final O is softened, but the final N is not directly pronounced).
Now, the funny thing is that banquet is ALSO a French word. So, why is the final T pronounced? BAD FRENCH! A lot of French loan words are truly mangled in English, and this is one of them. The first syllable should be stressed with the A softened, and the N not actually pronounced, and the final T should not be pronouced, at all. So it should sound more or less like this: BAH-keh.
Hey! The Japanese pronounce ice cream "ICE-u-cream-u" (the letters R and L are really one sound like a strongly stressed L sound). So, loan words have a way of sounding just awful to a speaker of the language from which they're borrowed. :P
Sunshine & Blessings,
Giovani
@allknowing (135935)
• India
23 Apr 11
Whatever be the history behind the English language the fact remains it does confuse those who want to learn it. The examples I gave hardly justify the mystery behind this language which I simply love!. It would be odd for me to give you any more examples 'gsintiny' as those would hardly help me convince you that English is after all a mystery.Before I go any way let me just give you one more!. 'Believe" has i before e but 'Receive' has e before i!!!!
@SViswan (12051)
• India
23 Apr 11
ha ha Sids...I can totally relate to the crazy and confusing part. I've analyzed why I am so..that's because my thoughts move faster than I can speak or type :P
BUt you've put an interesting thought in my head....time for Project Homeschooling :). I can probably start off my older son to find an answer to your question :) It would be an interesting research.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
21 Apr 11
Hi SViswan
At last someone understood my post You know, they call me Crazy and confusing (people around me) and I know at times they are quite right
But yes, I am happy that you mention that a similar treatment happens with Aa or E in Malayalam too. Now that will help me, as Iwill also be asking to someone here, whom I know is a Malayalee.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
21 Apr 11
Hi Sids
That is one deep question you ask here. I have never really given it much thought. I read through the other responses which were entertaining but honestly now I'm just confused and have no answers for you. I think Sunny could write an entire novel just using W words. geez.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
21 Apr 11
Hi sid
Yes, it is still confusing and I even think that I should have been simple on the discussion - and instead should have asked "Why do most Question words Start with W". Anyways. I think some things are better as mystries but I would not give up... maybe find an answer somewhere else.
@Sreekala (34312)
• India
23 Apr 11
Hello my brother,
Now I understand what you are asking (sorry that day I was confused much, with everybody). In our language too the special letter is there, which is explained by SV already in her reply. The same specialty is there when asking some questions that particular letter is used in our language too… I don’t have any idea about the reason for this discrimination.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
23 Apr 11
Dear Didi
Ah, never mind the delay... you know your brother is always so confused and gets people confused too.
Well, on pg 2 they have some loads of information and I will be studying them for sure... Hope I too get an answer to this question
1 person likes this
@gsaintiny (69)
• United States
21 Apr 11
Hey Sid,
Nice question! :O)
A few words about X in English. I believe it comes from the Greek "chi." And I don't believe it clearly became the "kx" sound until relatively recently.
I now live in a county called Bexar. It is, strangely enough, pronoucned "bear" (like the animal). At least, that's what people here will tell you. It took a little thinking, but I finally figured out what's going on. The name is Spanish. And, just as Mexico is pronouced "Meh-hhi-co" (The X is an h-sound given a gutteral extra bit of wind), Bexar is pronounced "be-hhar."
When I was small and lived in Canada, I remember the teacher saying that the letter K was not used so much in French, but was more of an English letter. I believe that was K. The TH group is foreign to French.
Just remember, Sid, that written language is typically secondary to spoken language. The letters are an attempt to capture an existing pool of sounds. Some sounds are used more often than others. For example, the vowels--as they represent the breath--are used a lot. In English, the letter E is the most often used letter in the alphabet.
However, some sounds only occur every now and then. Also, the way in which they're written will depend on various things. For example, there may be a good number of nouns that end in K or C. Well, when they're made plural, they create the X sound. But English spelling rules require that they be written as KS or CS, so X's opportunity to occur is decimated! :O(
Hahaha!
Funny, Sid. I was just thinking of George Bernard Shaw's joke about English's ridiculously complex spelling rules (or lack thereof). This was about an hour before I read your post!
He suggested fish could be spelled ghoti. Gh, as in enouGH. O, as in wOmen. Ti, as in naTIon.
Language is a pretty funny thing, Sid. ;O)
Sunshine & Blessings,
Giovani
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
22 Apr 11
Hi gsaintiny
Quite interesting information here. I must admit that I never studied literature as I found it not so interesting during those days but now, I realize I should have studied some of that one as I find it quite intriguing now.
Here in our state too (Oriya Language) the V is pronounced as Bh
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
21 Apr 11
Hi topffer
Mysterious... That is what I was thinking.
The "K" - its equivalent in Hindi, Bengali and even Oriya(these are languages I know apart from English and are Indian) - too is used to make most of the question words like I mention for W...
Hope the mystery is solved at least for me
1 person likes this
@zralte (4178)
• India
21 Apr 11
I have no idea at all. I never thought of it actually.
My language....don't know if it has special alphabet either. I will have to think about it.
What makes you think of these things?
(I know a few jokes making fun of the English language, but you made it clear you don't want those....so I'll refrain )
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
21 Apr 11
Hi Zralte
Do you mean you too (like many in real world) think I am crazy and confusing If yes, I am and cannot help it.
I think quite odd things and have a whole set of these in a diary. Wanted to put it on a blog but that would leak out many things and I will be sent off to an asylum Dont want to stay away from my wife.
Anyways, seriously, I was reading too much recently and found (like always) that most of the question words start with W(as I mention in the discussion). I thought of equivalents in languages I know and there too I found this trend. So just curious to know Why.
And yes, I am seriously looking for an answer.
@zralte (4178)
• India
21 Apr 11
Oh NOOOOOO....NOT AT ALL. I would never think you are crazy.
You see, I never think.
How will the world go round and make improvements if not for the thinkers like you? Think of it...if everyone's like me and not think too much, we would all be stupid and not making any development at all. So, cheers to you and all the other thinkers.
I used to have a mind a long time ago, now I just have kids. That's my Fridge Magnet speaking, and it is true. I don't have time to think anymore.
@zed_k4 (17589)
• Singapore
25 May 11
I've learned a lot in this discussion. Good thought out answer thesids. I've nothing to contribute to this topic .. but you've given such good food for thoughts. And Kalav's answer , WOW! Deserves the best response for sure. That's the beauty of the lot where everybody has a chance to say something and we learn from it too.
@venkataraman_vc (5293)
• Chennai, India
21 Apr 11
Well. Actually I should be able to answer your question. But, I am not.
In my degree, there was one paper 'History of English Literature', which was interesting one. It covers how the language developed, how the words coined alongwith gestures. (Our professor explained very interestingly. He knows 5 languages and he just explained how words reflect the mood or gesture.)
@venkataraman_vc (5293)
• Chennai, India
21 Apr 11
We wondered how each word matched with the gesture when he uttered those words with gesture.
@anil02 (24688)
• India
21 Apr 11
Hello siddartha you have made a research on these words. I know Hindi, English, Marwari and Punjabi. But I never try to find words as you done. But in punjabi many words have double meaning. Punjabi speaking people use Ch for S. They pronouce Chadak to Sadak.