So it looks like the government is going to try and ban cells & driving....

I rather thought that "PS: if you don't own a cell phone or do not use one, this isn't for you." would immediately get someone's hackles up! I don't appreciate being told to 'move on', either. Isn't that rather like depriving some members of their "right" to free speech?

"move on" and "this isn't for you" makes me want to get into it all the more...

Well, I had to put that because when I write discussions of this 'nature', I immediately get two or three replies that sound something like this - I don't know why you're so upset, I don't even own a cell phone and what's more is that I hate cell phones and have no idea why anybody would want to be leashed to something that costs them money and is basically giving other people access to bother you all day. To me, a response like that has nothing to do with the actual topic but believe me, I always get a few like that. I haven't read everything yet so just wait and see. Owlwings - the move on basically meant if you're going to run over my viewpoint as if you believe it has no merit and is not valid and whatever you think is somehow right or better, then don't answer my discussions. I'm not saying you MUST agree but I don't need to pop in here and see people who are 180 just coming here to try and act like they are the final word. You know nobody is, this is a discussion.

Exactly, Mac. It's a slippery slope and includes things like talking to your passengers, paying attention to your kids, listening to music, changing stations, cds, putting on or swapping a movie (I have a dvd for the back seat) and what about eating and drinking? Hah. I get all sorts of crap from people whenever I mention all these other things but if you allow just ONE lost freedom, we are slowly going to lose more, and it's not right, nor is it actually enforceable in any reasonable manner. BTW PPE, it's illegal actually to wear earphones while driving FOR that reason. There are even people (who are actually idiots) who are trying to go about banning the use of earphones when people are running. Since I run, I am NOT going to ever follow something that dumb, if I need to hear people talking, I either wear ONE earphone or I have the volume way down. I don't care what someone else (who doesn't even do what I do anyway) thinks - to me this is like a male doctor (who has never been pregnant or birthed a child) believing they have any clue what pregnancy and childbirth is like. They don't know, they have no idea, they have never experienced it, so they should stuff it and respectfully shut up.

It seems to me like they are trying to "dumb" us down. I may be saying that backwards actually. But like they are not allowing us to be smart enough to make our own decisions. I am also a runner, but I am smart enough to wear my earbuds and turn them down low enough so that I can hear traffic too. That's just common sense. But then - they want to make all electric cars that you cannot even hear if you do not have the earbuds in...it's all about being smart - and using it! There will always be idiots who cause wrecks, and morons who hurt themselves because they do not pay attention...you cannot legislate intelligence.

That bothers me and I think it should. I hate it when someone who doesn't know jack squat about me assumes something, and any time another person (who doesn't know me) assumes I am not wise enough to make my own decisions entirely - they are wrong. I don't assume I can make anybody else's decisions for THEM, nor do I force them to be around me if they don't like my choices. They are never invited to interfere with or stop my choices though. Music is one of those things I will always have on... while running, while driving. Of course I would adjust the volume accordingly. There's not much I can do about people who do not, but I am not going to suffer because they want to act stupid lol.

What about having to have car insurance or having to use seat belts and car seat for kids and infant? Aren't they invasion of of privacy too. Aren't they legislated into law?

I have been thinking about that because I knew sooner or later someone would say that. I still don't think the government has any business legislating what people do in their cars. If something happens, penalize then. You can see how well trying to legislate NOT using handsfree has worked, I still see 9 out of 10 people on handhelds. I haven't seen many accidents here caused by that. I even live in a state where that was legislated fairly quickly.

I agree. I cannot understand why people must have their phones on while driving at all but then I only use mine for emergencies. I live in the country and if I break down then I need to be able to call for assistance. Other than that I have no use for them these days. Surely it is not so hard to wait til you are no longer driving to answer a call or make one, if it is so important then maybe they could pull over. I have seen driving becoming worse over the years since I got my licence. People used to indicate before turning, I was taught that you indicate before you get to the corner but these days the indicator appears to be an afterthought that the driver uses while turning rather than before they get to the turn. Makes it hard on the driver behind and causes accidents. It is law but too many people seem not to care these days. I think in Australia it is illegal to do anything that takes your hands off the wheel. So in that case eating etc would also be against the rules. I think that conversations take more concentration than music and drivers should definitely not be taking their eyes off the road.

Freedom to me means other people who don't even know me do not go about judging ME based on their interactions with a few people who are nothing like me.

and this is how many laws are made... unfortunately.

They're not judging you, they are judging the conglomerate of people who use cells while driving, many of whom have accidents as a result, many of which kill or injure innocent people. It's almost as obviously bad as drink driving. I disagree so strongly with you on this that removing myself from your list is EXACTLY what you're asking. Lash

"the fact is irresponsible drivers will still do what they want to do, that's why they are irresponsible. So really you are only punishing responsible driver with this law." This is the classic non-sequitur. Nobody is being "punished" except, hopefully, those who ignore the law. The law is necessary because some people cannot be trusted to drive responsibly. THOSE are the people you should claim are restricting your "freedom" (NOT "rights", please!)

Yes but where do you draw the line. Will the government only allow one person in a vehicle at a time, are we not allowed to listen to the radio. The law states you need a hands free set. To me that's enough now stay out of my car, and the fact is irresponsible drivers will still do what they want to do, that's why they are irresponsible. So really you are only punishing responsible driver with this law.

PPE do you really want the answer to that question LOL. Yes some states have abandoned speed limits in favor of stopping people who are driving unsafely. I think this is a better solution to the problem, and Owl Wings taking away a hands free set from a responsible driver is a punishment, and driving is a right not a privilege, the government would have you think it's a privilege, but if you are trying to get away from an axe murderer I'll bet you won't really care what the government says what you can and can't do.

Well said. Phones are dangerous in that they removed your concentration from the road which can cause accidents and removes your ability to respond quickly. I find music is a background thing that helps me relax but does not take my concentration away. I have heard that some people even text while driving although I do not know how they manage this without ending up in a ditch. I need both hands on the wheel for proper control and even talking to a passenger can affect your concetration but possibly not as much as a cell phone. Seat belts are an interesting point. We are made to wear them for our protection but if you had to jump out of a car just before you crashed could you do it if you were wearing a seatbelt. My partner did this in his youth and now he hates wearing them and has been fined twice for not doing so. They are uncomfortable and I hate wearing them but I hate the fine as well. In the case of seatbelts the only person we are endangering is ourselves, in the case of cell phones we are endangering ever road user because driving requires your entire concentration. There is a big difference. Freedom is important but you no one has the right to endanger any other person and where that can happen freedom is curtailed in the interest of the wider community.

Owlwings - the issue here is that I do not need someone else, a stranger, who doesn't even have any idea whether I'm paying attention or not - to use the lowest common denominator... ie, the stupidest person doing the stupidest things - to judge ME or MY capability. When you start down the slope of prohibiting things because the stupidest of the stupid are consistently causing problems, hurting people, or hurting themselves, then the rights of NORMAL people are infringed upon. I'm saying this in a general sense first and then applying it to the topic at hand. What if - because several idiots are constantly falling down and getting injured, the government decides that EVERYBODY has to wear helmets to protect their heads? Not just while riding a motorcycle, now you have to do it any time you're walking around in public. Wouldn't you be offended since YOU don't fall down and get head injuries every time you go outside? I sure as heck would. I'd also think that it was a bit offensive to use those people to judge everybody and then make your rules based on the stupidity of a few. The seatbelt thing I put in the same category as wearing helmets on a motorcycle. I definitely wear seatbelts and helmets (if i'm on a motorcycle) but do I think everybody HAS TO? Actually, I think if someone else doesn't feel like it, it's not my business. If they are in my car, yes, but if someone else chooses not to in THEIR car, why should I care? Oh yes, because it's a law. Well.... many people don't care and don't follow it. It doesn't make me any less safe for someone else to not wear their seatbelt and I don't get why that matters to you or anybody else. I also find it extremely odd that most forms of public transportation do not even HAVE seatbelts. If you MUST wear a seatbelt in your private car, then why don't buses and trains have seatbelts? I hear that sometimes you also cannot put a child safety seat on a bus since there's no seatbelts, yet if your toddler is not in a safety seat in your car, you can get a $400 ticket. Talk about strange...

Owlwings you bring up a good point about seat belts. I do believe it should be my right to decide whether I want to wear my seat belt or not. In Pennsylvania it's not mandatory for a motor cyclist to wear a helmet, so I should have the right to decide if I want to wear the seat belt or not.

I want to be treated fairly, of course, but if I or ANY OTHER human being is acting in a way that goes against the well-being of my community I expect my community to deal with it with social or legal consequences, as needed. We are all dependent on each other.

Studies have repeatedly shown that using a hands-free phone reduces a driver's concentration by nearly as much as using a handheld. The reason is, I think, that attention can be distracted by any conversation, and especially by a conversation with someone who is not in the car and therefore cannot be aware of when the driver needs to pay attention to driving.

Handsfree would include bluetooth, a wired headset, or speaker - I have used all three, generally I just have it on speaker. It is exactly like talking to passengers in my car. EXACTLY. I have never run into anything because I'm talking to passengers in my car. I'm not saying NOBODY has but nobody can argue that it is not the same thing. Nobody is going to try and enforce a ban on talking to passengers. Sorry. That is one of the stupidest ideas anybody has ever come up with lol. Studies that are done are slanted toward whomever is paying for it. Trust me. They may have plenty of data that shows people are just as likely to hit somebody when they are alone and eating a sandwich but for purposes of the study, they are going to rail on the fact that the person is using a cell phone and/or has passengers just to make their data look better.

running red lights is a problem too, so they came up with red light cameras. NOW there is no way I'd want to accidentally run one of those, the fine you get is like $500. The problem now is that there are lots of people who still run them, and if you're unlucky, you get plowed into by someone behind you BECAUSE you stop when the light turns yellow. I always stop when one of those turns yellow and there have been times when I have almost been completely run over by the person behind me, i'm talking inches from my bumper because they had hoped I'd go thru so they could! I'd say those things almost cause more accidents than they prevent, not to mention they are really expensive for the cities to run them. They removed some of them from around here and I'm glad. Now I don't have to watch my rear view as much in fear of getting rearended.

Driving tired is very bad. I have done it when I was working and fell asleep once goind home late from work, it made me move closer to work since I was working very long hours. In the end I gave up the job because the long hours were compulsory and I am just too old and too sick to do that any more. Falling asleep at the wheel is very scary. In fact if you did fall asleep and woke up just in time to throw open the door and jump out before hitting a tree then you would be better off without a seal belt. They are protective in an ordinary accident but hard to remove in an emergency. As to removing from the list I was answering your comment.

I didn't ask YOU to remove yourself, but if you choose to, that's fine. I see someone else I enjoy also figured I was talking about him, I was talking about neither of you. I actually think driving while tired is worse than anything, there have been times when I've been tired enough to not even remember the last minute or longer I've been driving. I've NEVER felt like that having a conversation, so in my opinion which was the less safe thing - driving tired.