Without reincarnation, god may seem a bit unfair...

@vandana7 (100619)
India
January 20, 2012 1:28pm CST
So ...somebody was saying in a television serial that people suffer in this life because of the wrongs in their previous births, and so they need to be good for a better future. Well, that is an explanation for our suffering, and it gives a hope that someday, our sufferings will not be there. If I believe in god, I must believe in reincarnation. Why? Otherwise, how do I explain present day suffering, if I have not sinned previously? And because I have been fairlyg good in my life, I hope to find a better life in my next birth. Nice thing that hope. So...do you believe in reincarnation?
5 people like this
16 responses
• United States
21 Jan 12
I actually don't believe in reincarnation, and it has a direct connection to my belief that life is beautiful. If we can find hope in reincarnation, it gives you the idea that you can slack off in this life, not complete all of your life's goals, not do the things you want to do because you believe you will have another chance. Instead of believing that life is very short, even if you are lucky enough to reach your eighties, believing in reincarnation can keep you from reaching your full potential. My lack of belief in reincarnation stems from a few things. For one, I see it as a vicious cycle that serves no ultimate purpose and has no ultimate end. For another, I believe it brings a new and, quite ugly, definition to individuality. For example, let's say that my body now is new, but my soul has been reincarnated and recycled, per se, to right the wrongs and whatnot in this life. For one thing, no matter how many wrongs I right, I will be making more mistakes, so what is the point of continuing to recycle my soul in an endless cycle that never can teach you to learn from mistakes, only to fix the mistakes of another body? And, if I believe my soul has been in numerous bodies before mine in various lifestyles, I begin to degrade the importance of my own body and life in my mind. Where I once believed I was an individual, capable of individual accomplishments and responsible for individual mistakes, I can no longer believe. It shows me as less of a human being and more of a drone. Let's say for the purpose of this thread that reincarnation does in fact exist. I will continue through life, then, as if it doesn't, because otherwise, I will make excuses for myself now and put things off until the next life I believe is coming. Reincarnation is a way to put off responsibility, to believe that you don't have to make this life your best because you will get as many chances as you need, and to undermine what it means to truly be a human being trying to live a decent life. At least, that's my two cents.
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
26 Jan 12
Ditto all the best urban
@urbandekay (18278)
26 Jan 12
Wise words, think I. This should have had best response all the best urban
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
21 Jan 12
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
20 Jan 12
Hi Vandana Of course, I do believe in re-incarnation. Not because of the Sins theory as propounded by many around but because I feel the vibes at times. An example - Havent you met a completely unknown person while traveling or even crossing the roads and felt that this unknown person connects with you? There is no logical or scientific explanation to this but I think this is based on how we did interact in our previous births. The same example applies when you see a person for the very first time and the very first glimpse makes you feel drawn away, or kind of sick... That again is another example. The Sins theory... I have a different view of course. I feel that everything that we get in this life is measured and allocated. Whatever is left incomplete in this life will revert back in the next one. So if I have a 100 sins to commit this life, and I commit only 70, the remaining 30 get added to the stocks for the next life... Hmmm... So I should try to commit more than the required number eh!
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
23 Jan 12
Actually, I feel the vibes but from live people. :) I dont, however, believe in predetermined destiny as you seem to believe. The way you put it. Its almost as if god gives you pocket money.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
21 Jan 12
Hi vandana7, Although I was raised a Christian and the Christian church today, with a couple of exceptions, doesn't teach it, I've believed in it since I was a child. I was too young to understand and probably had never heard the word, but I someone felt that I was suppose to be somewhere else. I was raised in a good home with parents and family that loved me, yet I was lonely and it was like I missed someone. My family was very much into the church and I attended Sunday school and church on a regular basis. I tried very hard to get rid of the idea of having lived before because I knew the church, didn't teach it, yet it was all to no avail. I couldn't get rid of the feeling that I'd had as long as I could remember. To be honest I've never thought of it from the suffering aspect, although it makes sense. Jesus Christ himself said "those who use the sword will die by the sword", and we know this doesn't happen in one lifetime. When I was around thirty or thirty one years old, I came upon the book, "There is a River", The story of Edgar Cayce, and I knew that I had come home. Everything fell into place for me and I never doubted reincarnation again. Since that time I've made a study of church history and discovered that many of the early Christians believed in it as well, including some of the early fathers of the church. In fact it was the sixth century before teaching of reincarnation was forbidden by the church, and this seems to be because it did not fit in with the way that some leaders wanted the church to go. Even then, there were those who continued to believe in it. When the Bible as we have it today was put together, also in the sixth century, it is thought that anything referring to reincarnation was intentionally left out, however, there are still some Biblical references that some people point to as proof of reincarnation. I see nothing wrong with such a belief, in fact I'm convinced that it makes much more sense than other religious teachings. Blessings.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
21 Jan 12
Wow that was so interesting! I read each and every word of it, and read it twice. So we can interpret Jesus' words like that for sure. :)
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
24 Jan 12
Pose, I have always believed the same thing about our books. I think the essence of our religion has been mutilated to the extent that it is now no more a religious book but more of storybook. So I am thoroughly disappointed with those scriptures and sermons. I prefer to seek god on my own rather than listen to something that often does not make sense to me. I am not going to accept it all without questioning just because it is there in the scriptures. I cant believe that a person who can be so sane in some issues would be utterly insane in respect of other issues. Vested interests have changed the interpretations as well as content over the years, and I want no part of it.
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
21 Jan 12
Can you give us some examples of the early fathers of the church who believed and preached this theory of reincarnation ?
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (45120)
• Canada
20 Jan 12
If there was such a thing as reincarnation then why do most of us don't remember our past lives? If we don't remember our past lives, then how can they serve as a lesson to improve ourselves?
• Romania
21 Jan 12
You can't remember them because thoese informations aren't in your brain. You must find them and for that you must train. And the purpose of this is not to give you a lesson, it's to make justice. It's Karma, the universal law unbreakable. Not even God can change it.
@1hopefulman (45120)
• Canada
21 Jan 12
Thanks!But it makes no sense to me but that's my take on it. Justice is all about making sense, or else it is not just. I persona;;y see no evidence of anything resembling reincarnation. all the best!
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
24 Jan 12
@jyuuken - you said I was right in saying "wouldn't the person be brought to justice by the almighty". :) But how would you know it wont be by reincarnation? After all, none of us is truly in god's good books. I have sinned. And I would find it hard to believe that others have not. So if all of us are not entitled to the eternal life and happiness, then god must feel lonely indeed while the devil has a gala time with so many followers. Choice is mine. Of course. But as one of my friends pointed out, if all my friends are going to hell then there is no point in me going to heaven. It will be quite lonely out there, and that itself will be a kind of hell.
@aerous (13434)
• Philippines
21 Jan 12
You know my friend I don't believe in re-incarnation because if you read and understand the bible. When people die he will be back with God
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
21 Jan 12
To be back with god doesnt mean that is the end to the story, does it? I mean we definitely go to god - like little children, and god reviews our performance and the number of complaints registered against us and the number of wrongs that are done against us. Surely it is his duty to make others realize how they've failed us? Dont you feel that need? Well - so god takes it upon himself to correct the gross wrongs done to us and teach other souls some lesson. Purgatory is right back in the world. This time possibly slogging the hardway and not getting anything for that much of hardwork. At least, it is a comforting thought that god is just so any injustices done to us will be duly rectified and we will be calmed.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
22 Jan 12
Ok lets start with your view - there is a judgment day. Osama Bin Laden stands before god and St. Peter. What sort of punishment would be most apt for him? And would you be satisfied with that punishment?
• Romania
26 Jan 12
We are "with god" here on earth too. Belive me, you have a long way, before even meet him, not talking about staying with him. For that, you must be whiteer than snow, and now under 100 people on earth are close to that.
@deedee328 (1122)
• United States
21 Jan 12
I personally not believe in reincarnation any more than I do the theory of evolution. I think that we only live once here on earth. How can you believe in God and reincarnation too? We as humans were burn unto sin. It is only through Christ that we are saved and will enter into Heaven.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
21 Jan 12
I feel my belief in god creates my belief in reincarnation. I mean, suppose I do a grave wrong to somebody and that person suffers the consequences for the rest of his or her life. It is natural for them to feel the need of god's intervention. Now, you know as well as I that god is fair. In this case, god needs to punish me. Suppose I predecease the person. Then god has little choice but to take the account to next life, isn't it? Pose has some interesting points to make here. May be you could read them too as far as Christianity is concerned.
@deedee328 (1122)
• United States
22 Jan 12
I am sorry, but that didn't make sense to me. I still do not understand how you can believe in God and think we live multiple lives. God said that we live one life here on earth and ONE eternal life. If we are saved, when our human form looses life, we will spend eternity in heaven. If we are not saved, then eternity is spent in hell. The person that you done wrong, will hopefully be saved, and will receive their reward of eternal life with the Heavenly Father. God will intervene on his/her behalf, but not by giving you another life on earth. There are no "do overs" for human beings. You get just ONE life down here. I do not need to read Pose or anyone else. I read the Bible and believe with all my heart that it is all I need.
@deedee328 (1122)
• United States
22 Jan 12
Those are progressions of ONE life, not several lives. You don't die in between each stage of developement. I would not punish you for your wrong doing. It is not for me to seek vengance. That is God's job. I would not hold your children accountable for your wrongs.
21 Jan 12
This is very illustrative of the mess you get in when you start believing in some imaginary super being. Because god does not actually exist the "person" of god is open to a different interpretation by anyone who wishes to make one up so these sort of questions will never have a definite answer
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
24 Jan 12
I accept that the person of god is open to a different interpretation by everyone. :) We each share different type of relatiionship with him or her. Just like the vivid dreams we have in our sleeps are ours and ours alone. :) Even though somethings are common, no two dreams are exactly alike, right? So why do we say god should that I believe should be the god that others believe? All I can say is that there is a creator. Logically speaking, there has to be one. Somebody created those fans and lights and television sets, and cooking gas, and all that stuff. So somebody created my ancestors, and all those life forms and inanimate things around me. I am happy enough to label him as "god" because he didn't come to me and say "Hello, I am xyz". :)
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
20 Jan 12
How many people remember a previous life? I don't know of anyone. What hope is there in reincarnation - living your life over and over in the hopes that there is a chance one day you'll finally get it right? Reincarnation offers no hope because humans are too weak, impatient, stubborn, and easily tricked by any number of negative persuasions. Our inability to keep God's law is proof that it's not reincarnation that we need but a Savior. God is never unfair. Not only did He work out a plan for the salvation of mankind, it was His sacrifice of His only begotten Son that fulfilled that plan. God accepted Jesus' sacrifice for the sins of mankind and all He asks of us is to accepted it also and make Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. That's not too much to ask in exchange for salvation. The only hope is through acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
29 Feb 12
God has already equipped us with all we need. He has spelled it out in His Holy Word, the Bible. I can't agree with your Lego analogy. For me, Lego represents the house just as the body is the house our spirit resides in. It's our character that needs to change, not our house or body. The same character in a new body is the same character. If you put your trust in God, you don't need any more lives. You will have eternal life with Him.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
29 Feb 12
Would you make a kindergarten kid appear for postgraduation? When we cant do that, how can god do something similar with us? Doesnt he need to equip us to keep our paths clear of wrong and help us avoid wrong at all times? As to previous life.. it might just be like lego toys. Dismantle one piece and integrate it into another. Effectively, the piece by itself has no identity but when it combines into something else, it contributes.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
21 Jan 12
I see you are doing a lot of good thinking. Great!! Yes and we all know that God will be fair. The parameters of our lives are set to aid in the lessons we are to learn. On the other hand, we will all be able to do it all if we choose. There is no limit to how many lives we choose. Ok, then there are the souls who volunteer to go through great adversity in order that someone else will see. Even in the midst of this adversity, one can still experience great joy. Let's not forget that the more we learn; the more we see and understand. It awaits us all,The greatest of joy. Keep walking Vandy. Good thinking.
• United States
22 Jan 12
As a perpetual thing?..No..The notions of good and evil are too sketchy. Its like climbing a ladder without all its rungs..
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
23 Jan 12
Well, we all agree that Osama Bin Laden was bad, isn't it? :)
• Romania
26 Jan 12
Maybe. The point of view is all that matters. Even Hittler, that killed milions of people. Some germans looked at him as a leader with a noble goal, not as a mass murderer.
@Kalyni2011 (3496)
• India
24 Jan 12
I believe in reincarnation, i have read several stories on this and at times such cases are flashed in tv, where a person can recollect his/her previous life.. I believe we suffer becoz of what we did in the previous lives and what we are doing in the present life, if we do good, we get more good, if we do bad, we get more bad, i try to do good to others and try not to harm or cause pain to others... Happy posting, cheers. Kalyani
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
24 Jan 12
I dont believe in anybody who says that they remember their past life. It is difficult to accept that, especially since I have not come across one. But reincarnation is something I believe in because I cant understand how little kids die of cancer - why they get punished. Or why some situations that have no solutions come into my life, and which I feel can only be corrected in the next life with certain measures. That calms me down, and therefore, to me reincarnation is one tool with god to give us justice.
• Romania
21 Jan 12
It's not that easy. It's easyer:D It's all about vibration, it decreasses when you do something bad and increasses when you do something good. Afteer you die, you spend a while going in all the places you've been in your past life and asking forgiveness. After that you go to a place with a vibration similar to yours.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
21 Jan 12
Well, that is an interesting postulation, and I will subscribe to that as well. It is a possibility. More so because recent discoveries indicate that time travel may be possible. Perhaps when we die we are transformed into a new form and there we have to correct what we did wrong here.
• Romania
21 Jan 12
The human being is made of 3 bodyes:the physical body, astral body and the soul. When you die, the link between body and soul is damaged and the soul and astral body separate. After a while the astral body disolves and remains the soul.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
23 Jan 12
Rebirth does not mean same body or even astral body. It means to me, rebirth of the soul.
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
20 Jan 12
Hi Vandana. If you have 10 minutes and you can read in english then try to watch this video and see what that man is saying about suffering.It can be explained without reincarnation and in fact it makes more sense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANiI9-9hVoA&feature=related He spent 12 years in prison and lived a lot of time as a hermit.And he thanks God for all the suffering he had.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
21 Jan 12
Hi iuliuxd like one medicine does not work for all, this advocacy of suffering is not always good. I agree that people who suffered at any point in time are more cautious of situations that can restart that suffering. But suffering can almost make people who withstood it egotistical, and autocratic. Excessive suffering for the sake of suffering creates sadistic behavior. The person stops understanding others pain because he'd got too accustomed to it. Effectively, it defeats the purpose.
@tatzkie23 (770)
• Philippines
21 Jan 12
I believe in God, But i'm not sure about the reincarnation thing. I've heard about it but i don't think that it really exist or it's really happening. I don't blame my wrong doings if i am suffering. I take suffering as a challenge in life. It will make more closer to God, because i will hold on to him. Until i can surpass it.
@vandana7 (100619)
• India
24 Jan 12
Well, those are lofty thoughts tatzkie, but not everybody can hold such lofty ideals. :) I for one cant understand why tiny tots die of painful ailments like cancer, and therefore, I seek an explanation. I cant believe they've sinned in this life. So it must be something in the past life. Unless you want to suggest that it is a punishment for the parents' sins. :)
@urbandekay (18278)
24 Jan 12
On the contrary, to believe in reincarnation is to believe that God is cruel and unfair. I am, in part, a product of my experiences, that I should be rewarded or punished, indeed that my fate in any sense should be determined by the actions of someone who in no real sense of the word is me, is the height of injustice, the action of a cruel and unjust God or the invention of the rich and powerful to justify their oppression of the weak and poor. As we see in India where millions live in near slavery. One of the great injustices of the world and a system that the civilised nations should be doing all in their power to bring to an end all the best urban
@jennyze (7028)
• Indonesia
27 Jan 12
Yep, I do and that is why I am trying to be good, so that I can find a better life in future. And I hope I will find you at mylot in the future, too...