Cultural inhibitions and myLot..
By vanny
@vandana7 (100616)
India
August 20, 2012 1:17am CST
If Lash were in India, I would (HAVE TO) call him Uncle, or Sir.
At the best, I would add words like "ji", or "saheb", or "garu"..what nots.
But I quite like the fact that I get to call him just Lash here, which is what he is.
In general, I find the attitude of people my age in my country ..very much inhibited in the way we talk, behave, or think.
Therefore, it is a refreshing change to see spade being called spade so openly, which I would only find confined amongst the teenagers in my country. That is why people on myLot come across as much younger than they are in real life.
a. Do you have any cultural boundaries which make you seem disrespectful if you call a person by name without any additions and deletions?
b. Do you think it is wrong to be addressing a person like that?
What according to you are indications of age in discussions out here?
c.
9 people like this
16 responses
@topffer (42156)
• France
20 Aug 12
Hi vandana,
I rarely check the age of a member at myLot, as I don't think it is very important online. I did it for this discussion and I realize that we have the same age : it was a good year.
We have not a particular word to address old people in French, but there is a familiar form for "you" that I personally only use with a handful of close friends and family -- persons that I call by their first name --, and I find disrespectful when a stranger use it, though it is a common habit among youngster badly brought up. Politeness is the basis of any society, I always use "Sir" or "Madam" when I talk to people, so I expect the same from them. I never call a person by name without any addition, except online.
3 people like this
@purplealabaster (22091)
• United States
20 Aug 12
LOL! I didn't say that I might not shock you at first, but I doubt that I would have offended you ... I tend to have a way of making people feel at ease and not offending them, even though I might do things that might normally offend them.
2 people like this
@purplealabaster (22091)
• United States
20 Aug 12
I think that politeness is good as well, but I doubt that if we had met offline I would have been as formal as you are used to, although having gotten to know each other online it is really difficult to tell. Still, I tend to get a sense of a person pretty quickly, and I also tend to not be very formal unless I get a strong sense that the person is really insistent on it. If you had called me "madam", I would have teased you and told you that I was not old enough to be called that, so not calling you "sir" would be a compliment that I also did not think you were that old.
2 people like this
@allknowing (137771)
• India
20 Aug 12
In a virtual world such as this all are equal as what is revealed here need not necessarily be what they are in the real world. However it is left to the individual to make their own guesses and treat the community accordingly. There is no hard and fast rule how each one treats the other as long as all are respected.
3 people like this
@allknowing (137771)
• India
20 Aug 12
In the real world unless one is related to me I would not want them to call me 'Aunt' specially the vendors!
I always addressed my boss as Mr.. or Dr. but never Sir. Calling anyone by their first name would be when there is total informality or the person concerned explicitly wants to be addressed by their first name. In my office we often referred others by their initials, including seniors.
3 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
20 Aug 12
Lash signs himself as 'Grandpa Lash'. I don't know how you would translate that into whichever Indian language you speak. I have heard that 'babuji' or 'babaji' is sometimes used when addressing a grandfather (but I understand that in some parts it is used to address a younger brother).
In the Philipines, 'lolo' means grandfather and I have been called 'Lolo Kuwago' (Grandfather Owl) by a young Filipino lady of my acquaintance.
In England, one may often express respect by adding Mr., Mrs or Miss to a person's surname or (if you don't know their name) by addressing them as 'Sir' or 'Madam'. To address someone as 'Grandpa' or 'Grandma' (unless they are your real grandfather/mother or unless used affectionately) would be, on the whole, rather derogatory because it empahsises the person's age and would usually imply that the person is not 'with it'.
3 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
20 Aug 12
In some parts of England it is quite customary to call perfect strangers 'love' (in the North) or 'dear' (in the West Country) but most people in the south of England would consider it slightly presumptive or too familiar.
'Sir' or 'Madam' are mostly used by people who are in a 'customer service' relationship and I suppose that is the closest we get to your word 'Ji'.
3 people like this
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
20 Aug 12
You wouldnt want to know ..lol
In my language Grandpa is 'Tata'..so it would be 'Lash Tata' not 'Tata Lash'. :)
'Babuji' is a way to address officer..or father..what happens is in joint families when kids hear their fathers and uncles address their grandfather as 'Babuji', it sticks. 'Baoji' and 'Bapuji' are other variants.
'Lolo Kuwago', ok..interesting..we have an actress whose pet name is lolo, wonder how she would take it..lol
And so 'Sir', and 'Madam' is if the person's name is not known..
I'd say addressing anybody who is not 20 years older than me as aunty or uncle would be derogatory. I have a neighbor, who is only about 7 years older than me. But she insists that I call her aunty..I mean..she calls and tells me tell ur father aunty called. lol
Most kids also dont like to be called or treated as one once they cross 20. We may have called them with their weird pet names, but in front of others, they want to be addressed with their formal names once they cross 20 or so. :)
It is a cultural thing I guess..:)
Out here on lot, such feelings dont exist..:)
4 people like this
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
20 Aug 12
Hi Vandana
I prefer our own custom where we are taught to address elders/acquaintances/unknown people/friends with that extra respect. It does not reduce the closeness in any way; even my own son addresses his parents not as ‘you’ as in ‘Thum’ but as ‘aap’ [In Tamil it is Neengal instead of nee.]I confess I did not do this with my own parents but liked the way it was done in my in-laws’ place and so followed that practice.As for others it does not hurt to address a person as Madam or Sir, uncle or aunty.
Coming to the point, in this forum I do not even look at the age of a person while I write a response and only in select cases I know their age. Here the ‘you’ pops in naturally [of course it has to in English]and we call them by name because we are used to it.It does not seem too rude or impolite.Neverthelss , once when I read some other middle aged person addressing Hatley as ‘aunty’ I felt I have failed on that count. I have always been addressing everyone by name here but it did not sound impolite but in this case I suddenly felt bad but could not change my habit because it has already been established and I would find it odd, changing it now. This odd feeling of discomfort has obviously been caused by my cultural inhibition.
I think it is wrong but have never felt it till now except in one case. In this forum it is acceptable because we interact with people but concentrate only on issues.
Age may not be always felt in a discussion. Only ‘Profile ‘page is the best indicator [of course taking the truthfulness found there for granted].
2 people like this
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
20 Aug 12
So kalaji? :)
or Kala..:)
Agreed official environments rub away some of those things, but still, we followed consciously or subconsciously the norm of addressing youngsters by name, and older people as uncle and aunty, while those of our age got ji's or garu's (Telugu) at the end. It now feels weird ..imagine addressing Lamby as Lamby ji, Dawny Ji, but with Hatley, aunty could pass off. :)
Perhaps their openness has something to do with us often feeling that they are younger than their age. Frankly, I find lamb's rants amusing many times. They are something I would expect of younger generation out here. :) So yes, I was mistaken about his age when I first came across his discussion. In fact there are several discussions like Global Worming, which you would associate with youngsters.
2 people like this
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
20 Aug 12
No Vandana.I prefer 'Kala' from you but do not mind the occasional 'madam' 'aunty' from youngsters especially when they are Indians.Shibham calls em 'didi' and it is quite sweet .If you have noticed I address Professor as 'Sir' or 'Professor' but for all others there is another advantage and that is of the user name.THe user name looks quite far fetched from the real name in many cases and so no formal address is really called for.You do not even tend to feel that this is a disrespectful address.For example you don't feel uncomfortable even if it is 'tigeraunt' instead of 'tigerauntji' or tigeraunt madam.When I refer to 'Owlwings' I do not think of him as "Mr.Owlwings but just Owlwings.This is clearly a user name and gives a peculiar sort of comfort that overcomes my cultural inhibition.Generally for Indian men and women, unless they are very old I do not have hesitations.I myself am not young and so it is like addressing 'Vandana' or' Paula' etc.and it comes naturally to me.
1 person likes this
@allknowing (137771)
• India
20 Aug 12
You two. You better start addressing me as 'allknowingji'
2 people like this
@dpk262006 (58678)
• Delhi, India
20 Aug 12
hello Vandana!
It always feel good to address you by your first name (which happens to be your user name too) rather than calling you 'Vandana Aunty' ........ Lol!
Our user names are our identities and the focus is on the 'topic' being discussed and not on the individual.
I would love to address any mylotter, irrespective of his/her age, by his/her user name.
I know in my heart of hearts that without adding 'ji' to his/her name, am giving respect to him/her, while writing my response.
1 person likes this
@dpk262006 (58678)
• Delhi, India
20 Aug 12
Vandana (Auntyji) - who has devised this parameter of 15 years ..... Lol!
If you have invented it, then am afraid, it is not going to be followed ..... Lol!
PS - on a serious note - if a newbie wants to 'read', what is the meaning of an interesting and meaningful discussion and how participants should respond, comment and counter-comment, it is one one of the best discussions for him.
Full marks to you.
1 person likes this
@purplealabaster (22091)
• United States
20 Aug 12
I think that a business situation is much different than a personal situation, so there are different rules for how to address people. In business, age is not as much of an issue as title or position, although many assume that to have a higher title or position you must be older. I was quite young when I had a high title, which made it a bit more difficult when addressing or being addressed by others. However, overall I preferred people to use my first name rather than a formality or title. When addressing others, it was customary to address some by their title, which I would do in public or when speaking of them to others, even though one on one I was told to address them by their first names.
If I was uncertain on how to address someone, then I would pay attention to how they introduced themselves and go from there. If we were introduced by someone else, then I would try to talk directly to them without having to use any name, which helped to avoid any awkwardness when speaking with them. If I had to talk to someone else about them, then I would generally use their first and last name (or their title if that was the customary address), so again I would not have to worry about proper etiquette.
1 person likes this
@purplealabaster (22091)
• United States
20 Aug 12
I think that it depends upon your business and how formal it is. In a small office without any outsiders or "official" people present, then you might hear someone say "Hey buddy, could you get me that draft by this afternoon" or "Sweetie, could you please revise this for me", but that implies a high level of familiarity and comfort within the office.
There were very few times when I addressed people as "Mr.", "Mrs." or "Miss" - as I already said, I generally just called people by their first names (or first and last name when talking to someone else about them) or avoided any names and just addressed them directly. There were times when their title was more appropriate, however, such as President or Chairperson or something like that, but once I became a professional I do not remember ever addressing any of my superiors as "sir" or "ma'am".
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
20 Aug 12
So what are the different ways of addressing people that you have out there..
Like when do you use buddy, sweetie, honey, love..(I find people using this in different contexts). Would you use such form of address in offices? If your subordinate were to be given a task, would you address by her name, or love would you do this for me, or sweetie would you do this for me, or Ms. ...would you do this for me? And reverse ..with your superiors, Jack here is the report, Mr.Dickenson, here is the report, Sir here is the report, simply here is the report, ..I think there is a subtle difference, you wouldnt say buddy unless the person was not very senior..right?
2 people like this
@KrauseHome (36447)
• United States
24 Aug 12
Personally, I think it often refers to which Country you might come from, and what are they wanting to be called? I know people like my Pastor and his wife who we can call by their first names in a small group since they are out age, but out of respect usually do not. But when it is someone in authority or older than you you do need to remember to treat them as such. But anymore the way someone is raised has a lot to do with it as well.
@hora_fugit (5862)
• India
26 Aug 12
And merely addressing people like that does not mean that we have a great deal of respect for them, and vice versa, we dont.
Exactly! That is what most people are confused about!
Though IMO such deferences convey fast what needs to be conveyed. So use them till the time you get past such formalities.
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
26 Aug 12
However, is it really necessary to address people that way. And merely addressing people like that does not mean that we have a great deal of respect for them, and vice versa, we dont. Aren't we desperately clining to something that has become irrelevant in contemporary context? Out here, on myLot, we dont really show that deference, and yet, we do respect each other, dont we? So..do you think we really need those things?
1 person likes this
@rogue13xmen13 (14402)
• United States
21 Aug 12
There are a lot of cultural boundaries or differences that make people in America seem disrespectful to others. Some people are taught manners, but don't care to use them, some people are taught manners, but only use them when they feel like it, or some people aren't taught manners at all. Some people are just taught to be direct, and get to the point because they have other things to do. It's what you might call the "Don't waste my time" effect. I try not to be disrespectful towards others, or I try not to seem disrespectful, but I also know some people who will yell at me and say, "Get to the point," so I do. I think that people should always try to be as respectful as they can towards others, but some people just don't do it, forget it, or will just be disrespectful because they can.
When it comes to addressing people, it can be tough because it's different in different regions. Also, calling people "Mrs.", "Ma'am", "Mr.", "Sir" or anything else like that can be disrespectful to some, and not to others. I once called someone "Ma'am" and she told me not to because it made her sound old, but then when I am in front of someone from the military, I have to address them as "Ma'am" or "Sir" because it's proper etiquette (my parents were all military).
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
1 Sep 12
Yeah..that is true. In military campuses that form of address is inculcated in the kids. :)
And I just noticed how form of addressing a person keeps on changing as well. :)
For example, when I was very young, I would go to a shop to buy something, I would address the shopkeeper as "Uncle", then as I grew older the form or address changed to brother, and now it is son or nephew. :)
@hora_fugit (5862)
• India
26 Aug 12
I was schooled to call everyone as 'aap', older or younger. It was good initially but..... people start getting either uncomfortable or bossy type ( read for non-old ones). Now for me, respect isn't what we say but how we say it.
Here on myLot I avoid using names. Just try to remeber when I called you Vandy aunty last or even Vandana. Would have liked to use the latter one though :p Once call someone as uncle or aunty there comes a kind of barrier, some sort of protocol. Not good. There have been grandpa bob and mrs. Hatley (my mistake for using ms) but generally I use username or sir (no madam) as for mr owlwings :)
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
26 Aug 12
Kiddo you are welcome to call me vandana..though honestly I dont really fancy my name..lol
Yes, we Indians tend to be too formal I thought. But I learnt that the other societies are also similar. This familiarity exists only on myLot. Outside, we would still be Mrs. Hatley and Mr...:)
1 person likes this
@hora_fugit (5862)
• India
26 Aug 12
Nah that won't do. You keep calling me kiddo, I'll have my revenge....
@bhanusb (5709)
• India
20 Aug 12
When I'm in mylot I call you vandana, not vandanaji. You may be my younger or not. That's no matter. Mylot is an international forum where we belong with same status. We all are friend. Our name is our identity. We don't consider our age or nationality. Here none is sir, madam, ji or saheb. I'm bhanusb and you are vandana and that is enough. Here in mylot we all are equal, all are friend. For somebody we may feel closeness. That another matter. But we respect each other.
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
20 Aug 12
I agree, and perhaps that is what triggered my thoughts, whether Lash was ok with the way I was addressing him. :)
And Mrs. Hatley. :)
I mean ..if some youngsters came around and addressed me ..hi sweetie, the first reaction would be..WHATTTTTT..:)
However, I have copied that sweetie thing from Saphrina. Yeah the blondie sufferina..lol.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
21 Aug 12
The sweetie is a copyright of our darling saphrina - one of our best friends here and unfortunately she is missing from MyLot.
But back to what you mention - the cutie fairy with the wand - is enough for many newbies to misinterpret your age and I am sure many would take you to be a young girl... And I am sure, you might think the WHATTTTT in your brains but you are too good a lady to mention it out that way anywhere... maybe some better words (which I lack)
@maygodblessu44 (7336)
• India
20 Aug 12
Hello my friend vandana7 Ji,
Well, I remember some yrs back, some members from China, UK, US and African countries made a querry about my addressing as 'JI' I brought out my cultural bondings, the raeson behind , I did not find any harm. In our country, there are places , where language i svery harsh and I do not find talking with them. For this reason I like 'URDU' very much where all ettiquittes are followed. We always pay respect to ours elders and seniors. Even my hubby at times speaks much in serious tones in our family. You may get astonioshed taht my mother never took name of my father and so on with my INlaws. I hardly remmeber, that I took name of my Hubby publically and inside four walls of my living. This is a custom, and I have no complains, when some lady calls her husband, with relation to her children, it bring husband and wife much nearer than addressing by name, which is just like calling by any other person and not by wife. Try for some time and , discard if not suiting.
May God bless You and have a great time [em]thumbup[/e
1 person likes this
@maygodblessu44 (7336)
• India
28 Aug 12
Hello my friend vandana7 Ji,
Well, recently Bollywood ha scome with new language 'HINGLISH' it is mixture of hindi and english and characters are from Hollywood as well as Bollywood. Next would I dare to add to your knowledge that English too ha ssome respected suffix and prefix like' Your majesty/Madame etc.' your / her hiness. My point was why I should forget my culture, I am a Indian, and should maintain my culture at every cost, by paying due regards and respect to all.
May God bless You and have a great time
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
27 Aug 12
Yeah..I noticed you add Ji even to my name..:)
I think if we were talking say in Hindi or Urdu it would make sense to use that form of address. But out here, we are using English and English does not have that word denoting that form of respect as far as I know.
It can go horribly wrong if mixed in wrong places..for example we invite people to our place right? In English ..it is a simple word welcome that does not indicate respect or lack of it. In Hindi it would be .."aa", "aao", "aaiye", right? The first for teenagers, the second fairly respectful, but the third would be most respectable. Now translate that into my language.."raa", "randi". You know the second word ..though absolutely dripping with respect..means prostit ute in Hindi, right? So perhaps, we need to follow rules as per the language of communication rather than adding what we consider as our form of respect. At least, I think that.
1 person likes this
@vidhyaprakash_2 (7116)
• India
20 Aug 12
Hi friend, we must give respect to the age, so only we are calling our elders with some additions, in mylot, we don't know the real age of most of the persons, so we are calling them using their user name. Age is not a great factor here, we can make friendship with any one, as we are in the virtual world
1 person likes this
@Shavkat (140119)
• Philippines
20 Aug 12
A culture is a culture, a tradition is a tradition. There are no other ways to changed that, unless if you moved to other country. Then, it the same thing, you need to embrace the culture and tradition, the manner of respecting the elders.
@vandana7 (100616)
• India
22 Aug 12
While it is true that once we move to another country, we need to embrace the customs and culture that is present there, there are some innocuous and yet appreciable parts of our culture that are hard to discard. Take for example muslims. They always address everybody as "aap", including their wives. That word contains a lot of respect. I kind of like that. :)
@urbandekay (18278)
•
20 Aug 12
My cultural asperation is to afford none a title.
Call no man master and be called by none master.
and
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
All are equally worthy of respect, I do not like any sort of giving of titles, same for namaste
all the best urban
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
20 Aug 12
respect out of age!!! if i remember the age difference, or even have a respect, i started prefixing - Dear - I tried the ji stuff with you but then felt it was making you a little uncomfortable... but then it is not a rule that i add dear nor does the not-adding of it mean no-respect.
i used to address some by the names like di, didi, or even akka... now have my doubts if i would continue. I must get global, after all we are global celebs here and i dont want to stay back