What's wrong with schools today?
By laglen
@laglen (19759)
United States
August 28, 2012 3:22pm CST
I think this article sums up a big issue. Lack of "qualified" teachers.
It seems a teacher in Atlanta felt she had to cheat and give the answers to students because "‘I had to give your kids, or your students, the answers because they’re dumb as hell,’”
http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2012/08/28/school-teacher-helps-students-cheat-because-she-says-theyre-dumb-as-hell/
there is a candidate for teacher of the year! How would you feel if one of your child's teacher said this? What would you do?
The school found the teacher guilty of willful neglect and immorality, and she subsequently lost her job.
6 people like this
32 responses
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
28 Aug 12
There's more to it than simply a bad teacher. You are looking at the symptom, not the cause.
Ultimately if a kid doesn't want to do school work, there is little to nothing a Teacher can do to make the child learn.
I would encourage you to read a book by Thomas Sowell, called A personal Odyssey. It's a great read, and to me at least, very interesting.
One of the things that happened to Mr Sowell is that he went into teaching several times, but each time left. The primary reason he left was because students refused to work, and administrators pressured him to change grades, grant extra credit, and otherwise pass students who didn't do the work.
But unfortunately, teachers are penalized if the students don't pass. We blame the teachers when kids get through school, and can't read or do basic math.
Now, if you are a teacher, and you don't want to lose your job, but at the same time you can't force students to learn... what's your only other option?
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2012/08/state_investigating_cheating_o.html
Two school principals were fired because of cheating. Why? Because if you are going to lose your job because students refuse to learn, then might as well cheat and hope no one finds out. You have nothing to lose, as the results are the same either way.
Getting the student to want to learn is more important than any other factor.
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/bad-grades-public-punishment/
This couple couldn't get their kid to own up his education. The grounded him, confiscated his cell phone (my father would have done far more than that).
But they finally made him stand on a street corner for 3 hours, with a sign around his neck saying "I failed math. My future is shaky" Or something like that.
Suddenly wonder boy figured out how to study for tests, and his grades came up. Same teachers. Same parents even. Same school and education system. But suddenly the Grade F became a Grade B.
Why? Because the kids decided he didn't want to be an idiot for life.
Granted there are some other things that need done to improve education, but this is the number one, top problem in our country. Kids don't WANT to learn. And there is nothing we can do to force them.
3 people like this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
29 Aug 12
Andy - That is a great point and you are absolutely right. There are plenty of kids that have no interest in learning. There are also plenty of parents that will not take part in their child's education. These are both big problems. I never like a blanket solution, such as, if not all of the students are doing well, then it must be the teacher's fault. There are always plenty of circumstances. But I do believe their are plenty of problems with the teachers and most assuredly the administrations of schools.
1 person likes this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
30 Aug 12
You are right on. This is why charter schools, which are only about a quarter funded fly over public schools in categories from test scores, college placement, attendance, parent involvement, teacher satisfaction, extra curricular you name it, the charter schools are factually better. If people would pay attention, they would realize that throwing money at the problem hasn't helped yet and it won't. My school district here, people are confused, we keep giving the superintendent more money but the schools aren't getting better. Our schools have been on "watch" for a few years now and things are not looking any better.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
29 Aug 12
And I agree with that too. Clearly there are numerous problems with government run education.
Most obvious of these is the fact that schools have no incentive to care about the students, and in fact have incentives to not care.
It goes back to the old free-market capitalist question....
Who is the customer?
The customer in this case, is government. They are the ones paying the bills. A teacher, and principal, and the administrators, have no reason to care much if the student is actually being helped.
Whether the individual kids pass or fail, has no baring on the pay of the staff.
Alternatively, private pay-for-service institutions have a huge incentive to either kick out a bad student, or help a good one succeed. After all, who is going to pay big money for a poor education? No one. So there is a huge incentive on teachers and administration, to make sure good students succeed, and bad students removed.
Public gov-education systems, on the other hand, are in some cases incentive to do poorly. Poorly performing schools qualify for state funding boosts, which of course are lost if the school performs well.
And let's not even get into the Unions, which could be another 8 pages of issues.
1 person likes this
@subhojit10 (7375)
• India
28 Aug 12
It is very much disappointing to hear such news especially the ones coming from a school. I mean schools are like temples where the teachers should do their best possible efforts to deliver the knowledge and wisdom to their students in the best possible way. We all have heard about students resorting to unfair means but when a teacher does so then it is very much a shame. i hope such acts are not repeated in the future. What say?
3 people like this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
29 Aug 12
sub - I agree it is a shame
stout - I think you have a point about schools wanting to medicate our kids. "It's easier". I would be very leary of placing my child on Ritalin. I do understand that teachers should be paid more, but teacher should not be going into the profession for the money. It should be from a real desire to teach.
1 person likes this
@katsmeow1213 (28716)
• United States
28 Aug 12
What this teacher did was wrong and I'm glad she lost her job.
However, I must say teachers are under a great amount of scrutiny these days. I was just having a conversation this morning at my son's UPK orientation with some other moms, one of them happens to be a teacher in another district. According to her, here in NY state, teachers are now being evaluated based on children's test scores, and they will be observed 1 day per year by the prinicpal.
Then she went on to tell me that in the district she works in, many of the kids are homeless, about 20% do not eat anything at all on the weekends, and many are abused/neglected at home. So why should their test scores rate how well she does her job? She can't control what goes on at home. She can't control if they come into school hungry, tired, or upset about what happened at home. She can't control if they're being read to or doing their homework, etc. Yet her job will be on the line based on these children's test scores.
That would be like telling a dentist that he must stink at his job because his patients all have cavities.. or telling a cardiologist that he's fired because his patients are obese and smoke 3 packs a day.
2 people like this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
29 Aug 12
Kat - you are right and I acknowledge the challenges and the extenuating circumstances that the teachers have to deal with. I am a big believer in canning the same testing on all students to determine the teacher's ability. Two months with a student can not erase 5 other bad years for the child. But I do worry about teachers like this and teachers that have abused students physically, mentally, sexually, and verbally. I do not by any means intend to put all teachers into the same group. Like with anything else, there are good and bad ones.
1 person likes this
@katsmeow1213 (28716)
• United States
6 Sep 12
The problem is the powers that be in the state capitols and in Washington do pool all teachers into the same group. My district is different than those around me. We live in a small town in between bigger cities. The bigger cities have serious problems such as homelessness, hunger, poverty, abuse, etc. My town is pretty good. There's some poverty etc, as there is everywhere.. but 90% of the teachers that work in our schools live in our communities. Their children go to the same schools and my children. Our kids have playdates together. We see them at the store, at sporting events, at the playgrounds etc.
My oldest was in a couple other school districts before we moved out here when he was in 3rd grade. My oldest can also be a bit of a problem child. He's easily distracted and can't sit still (though he was never tested for LD or ADHD.. that's another story, believe me I tried). In the other districts I had teachers I hated!! One of them would take away my son's playtime anytime he got out of his seat for no reason.
In this district I've never had a serious problem with a teacher.. ever! There've been some minor things, like my daughter didn't like her teacher last year, but after speaking to other parents I have no reason to believe that was the teacher's fault. I've actually become close friends with some of my children's teachers. I've yet to meet anyone in this district that I believe doesn't deserve their job.
So personally I'm against the way they want to evaluate our teachers. I think they need more than just kids' test scores and 1 day of evaluation per year. I think the best type of evaluation should come from the opinions of the community itself. Let the children and parents take surveys on how well they think that teacher has done their job. Let the other faculty and staff in the district also weigh in. Rate the surveys and opinions along with the test scores and observations. Then, those who appear to have a problem, such as low test scores and negative feedback, do some further investigation to see what the problem may be, and really scrutinize the teachers to find the problems.. if there are any.
That's my 2 cents!
@anex08 (868)
• Philippines
29 Aug 12
I've heard the same news too but I think it's on the teachers neglect. Nobody is too dumb to learn, it is the spark of willingness that makes learning more interesting. Children today mostly spend their time in computer games and any other internet activities that they find schools boring. Most education is now resting on the teachers ability to capture the students interest and make learning fun and exciting. Teachers should be well trained and know where to give perfect timing to catch students attention to learn well.
@Gautam1002 (730)
• India
29 Aug 12
That was sincerely a very poor show by a "teacher". It is something that will and rightly so, should never be treated as a mere fault. An act like this is never expected from a teacher who is actually meant to teach students the morals of life. The shocking thing further was the fact that she assisted a fifth grade child giving him an exposure to such a bad world at a young age.
I do not know what punishment can be thought for such an act but this was a very poor show of humanity.
2 people like this
@riyauro (6421)
• India
29 Aug 12
Oh man, this news is bad because I also would not expect a teacher to do that. this shows that the teacher did not do her work well and she might have been afraid that all her students might fail or something that is why she chose to do this or it could be also that she wanted her students to score the highest and this is ridiculous of her. Have a wonderful day ahead.
2 people like this
@lelin1123 (15595)
• Puerto Rico
29 Aug 12
Well from my experiences and the stories I have heard there are alot of horrible teachers out there. She called them "dumb as hell" but she is the teacher and it shows what a bad teacher she is. If you can't teach a class of kids their lessons and they can't learn then its the teachers fault. The teacher does not know how to teach so that the student understands the material. I'm glad she lost her job because she has no business being a teacher and the school is better without her. I just hope they can get a better teacher who cares about the students.
2 people like this
@jenny1015 (13366)
• Philippines
29 Aug 12
Teachers should take pride with the profession that they have because they are the ones that mold our children in becoming good citizens one day. To hear such words coming from a teacher simply shows she has no respect to her profession and does not even care if her students really learn or not. Teachers with these kind of attitude should really be no longer allowed to continue with her teaching job.
@toyota4k (1208)
• Philippines
29 Aug 12
Here in my country, learners start from preschool to elementary with another year more added to high school.It is obvious that a high school graduate in the eighties could write better and express himself well than a college graduate in the later years.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
29 Aug 12
Interesting. I do know that every country is different in the way they deal with and administer education. I would not know what recourse you have in another country. Here in the U.S. we have been trying to pass/implement school of choice. This would allow a parent to send their child to the school they chooses. I believe this would be a great solution. It offers competition in the schools and may make the more uninspired teachers look for a new line of work.
1 person likes this
@microworkers (19)
•
29 Aug 12
your correct. in our country, some schools are not competitive to teach students
1 person likes this
@microworkers (19)
•
29 Aug 12
however, you need to check the school first because not all countries are same
1 person likes this
@xmichelletarax (370)
• United States
29 Aug 12
wow this is pathetic. ill admit that there are some students in schools today that are "dumb as hell" but you dont come out and say it and instead of giving them the answers she should actually do something to teach them. i doubt that she gave them the answers because they arent smart, she prob gave them the answers because she was to lazy to teach them
2 people like this
@ulanhad (24)
• Chifeng, China
29 Aug 12
Hi, laglen
I'd like to talk about chinese school when I saw your title. I don't wanna talk about your topic, I just tell you the truth about chinese school or chinese education. Everybody knows that China has 9 years of compulsory education, means you don't pay any money for your education from 1 grade to 9 grade. But, in face, this is a lie. Parents must pay more money than before. Why? Although gov. forbid school fees, but the school also charge fees with a lot of items.
In addition, a lot of teachers receives present from parents, these present means money or cash. If one student's parents don't give money or other expensive present for the teacher, the teacher will treat the student so bad. He/She will let the student sit at the back of the classroom and doesn't allow the student answer questions. The teacher will estrang from the student he/she dislike. Why dislike? The ture reason is their parents never gives cash for their teachers.
What's more, a lot of teachers just pass on her/his a little knowledge to student in their lecture. He/She will stay the improtant parts, why? Because they can earn money from students with a type of make up a missed lesson after class.
Now I sum up that a teacher must be 'qualified'. Only my private view.
Ulanhad,from China.
2 people like this
@enjoythejourney (524)
• United States
29 Aug 12
I am not surprised that a teacher did this. School are punished if the kids do not do well on standardized tests and as a result the teachers are also actually changing kids answers of these tests so their school looks good.
Students, they are unprepared for the next grade level are often promoted anyway so it is no wonder they don't do well. Parents do not like their kids being held back, parents also do not work to see that there kids are doing well in school and often blame the school for the problem when the reality it is a joint problem belonging both to the school and the home environment.
We should all insist that are kids be given the highest quality education and we should all be there to support that system and work with our children to see that they achieve that goal.
Just my two cents.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
29 Aug 12
I agree and I addressed both issues in previous posts. Parents that aren't reenforcing the education at home and the standardized testing. I believe both are big issues. The standardized testing, in my opinion has been wrong from the start. Not everybody learns the same way or at the same pace. Maybe it is time to scrap this idea and move onto something better. Like using that time, money and energy to actually teach. I know this is more of an administration issue than a teacher issue. In fact I would can administrations all together. Talk about a waste of money.
1 person likes this
@ligwan (44)
• Philippines
29 Aug 12
That's odd. We also had that attitude some. Not to judge those teachers though. But I observed some of the local teachers here in our town has that kind of behavior. Well, they don't seemed to bother with it as long as the issue won't leak out, I guess. Qualification of being a professional teacher doesn't sum up to her score in her college days but the performance results of her pupils or students.
2 people like this
@CosmoOwl12 (411)
• United States
29 Aug 12
I just think it's crazy how some teachers these days seem to not care about the well-being of the children they are supposed to be teaching. I understand that they aren't making as much money as they once did (that's how it is in my area, at least) but that's no excuse to start getting crazy on the job.
I recently heard a story about a student who has autism and the teacher verbally and physically abused him, knowing that he had autism. Her excuse was that he was being rude and interrupting the class. I don't think that's a valid excuse to be abusive to a child. Surely she could have found a different way to let the child know he was being disruptive.
Things like this make me very hesitant about my putting my daughter in a public school. However, she is only 4 months old right now so I have plenty of time to decide. Hopefully teachers and schools will not be so strict on things they can't control.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
30 Aug 12
As a previous poster mentioned, teaching is a calling. There are far too many people in the profession for the wrong reasons. Your child is 4 months old, it is never to soon to start watching. Look at charter schools. It does not cost more money, and the results are far better.
Dealing with an autistic child with violence, is exactly the opposite to what that child will respond to. I know this and I don't even have a teaching degree. People like that should NEVER be left in charge of defenseless children.
@epicure35 (2814)
• United States
29 Aug 12
Unfortunately, this teacher was correct, though stupid herself. There has been a vicious cycle of "dumbing-down" and political indoctrination of public school students for decades, since the years of secularist John Dewey, liberal progressive and his influence on education.
The public school system in America is tantamount to only an academic and moral sewer, indoctrinating innocent children to become vassals of the state and never teaching anything of worth or allowing these children to think for themselves.
Check out John Taylor Gatto's websites/work. I have taught all across this country over a 48 year period and can substantiate much of what he says.
The only way to protect and educate a child is through homeschooling by a responsible, caring adult.
Lack of "qualified teachers" is just the tip of the iceberg.
The "school system" is just plain evil beyond belief and holds children hostage to their union greed, bullying, and even more unspeakable acts.
1 person likes this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
30 Aug 12
You are right on the "dumbing down". I see it all of the time. The indoctrination is well founded and proven. This I believe started around the sixties and has ratcheted up ever since. I will look at the site you mentioned, it will most likely just pi55 me off some more...
@thanks1961 (7035)
• India
29 Aug 12
It is not only in your area or in Atlanta, but it become a universal issue in these days. Lack of quality teachers and experience in the field of teaching make the children more cripple.
The teachers always compare them with the elders and they want all the children to be equal and many more. How can a child of 8-10 can be mature and they are the responsible people to make them efficient and this is the purpose we are sending our children to school to learn and study. Instead of teaching, they are insulting and misbehaving with children/students.
I always used to say that for the teachers, students are slaves and these 'experts' always behave to children with humiliation and hatred.
Whenever I happened to got the school, I purportedly avoid a chance to have word with these teachers. The moment the education started on the basis of business, the quality of the education and teaching has gone far behind and still, there are a limited percentage of dedicated teachers are around and the common crowd always spoils the better teachers.
1 person likes this
@Tina30219 (81837)
• Onaway, Michigan
29 Aug 12
I felt the same way last year my daughter had a lot of issues at school and she was not getting the right kind of help. I feel that the school she is going to just don't have the teachers to help her like she needs.But I have never heard from my daughter of any of her teachers calling her dumb because she can't do the work. I tell you if I ever did me and the school would be having some problems and I would not be nice about it. She is ADHD and is in resource as it is but I feel she needs it for more than she is getting it for but the testing is saying other wise. I have one more test to get done on her to make sure we are not missing anything.
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@Tina30219 (81837)
• Onaway, Michigan
30 Aug 12
Thanks. I am so definitely going to keep on them because I am not going to go through what I went through last year with her. If I do they are not going to like me at all. This year when it comes to her IEP and the meetings I am going to have to go through and explain all the issues all over because she has new teachers and this part is really going to bother me.Also the one main person that really helped me out is no longer there.
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
29 Aug 12
I live near Atlanta. I hadn't heard of tbis one but I did hear of a bunch of teachers giving out answers to tests and they were all caught and fired I think. Teaching is a calling. Not everyone has that calling. They just go to teaching for whatever the reason. My SIL's mom is a retired teacher. She is shocked by how tea hers behave nowadays.
1 person likes this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
30 Aug 12
Great point! Teaching IS a calling. This is where you get your exceptional teachers. And they ARE out there. I had a few outstanding teachers that still impact my life. Watching my daughter go through school, she has had a few as well. I know the real teachers out there are disgusted with stories like this.
@vipline (134)
• Greece
29 Aug 12
Simply unacceptable for a teacher to behave like this!I cant imagine to what she does to her own children!She really deserves to get punished for what she did,and im not trying to be mean by any means!Just think how this little kid feels right now!Like i said its really unacceptalble!
1 person likes this