Who does raising minimum wage really help?
By Taskr36
@Taskr36 (13963)
United States
February 10, 2013 8:34am CST
The answer: Politicians.
The retarded governor of Illinois has just decided to raise the state minimum wage to $10/hour. Illinois has been run into the ground over the years with unfunded pensions, corruption and typical left wing policies. The governor knows this, and figured the best way to keep his job is to make the morons that vote think he was helping them by raising minimum wage. So what will that do for workers in that state?
If you're making $10/hour or more, right now, this minimum wage increase will do nothing for you. If you're making between $8.25 of $9.99/hour, you will be raised to the new minimum wage. Of course, if you're employer has over 6 minimum wage employees, expect some of those jobs to be eliminated, as the increase will raise his expenses without increasing the value of his workers or the revenue he brings in. If you're a highschool kid, or unskilled worker, looking for a job, expect to be looking a long time since you're lack of skills isn't really worth $10/hour and employers likely won't see any return on their investment for hiring you.
Some idealistic morons seem to think that if they raise minimum wage like this, EVERYONE'S income will go up. It won't. Get over the fantasy. At best, it will make everything more expensive, at worst it will lead to jobs being eliminated. Often, both will happen.
Sorry folks, the government doesn't dictate your worth in the job market, that's between you, your employer, and the market value of your labor. Keep voting in morons that raise the minimum wage and all you'll really do is push employers to find alternate ways to get jobs done, often with machines which is why Walmarts have so many self checkout lanes with one cashier per every 6 registers in some stores.
2 people like this
13 responses
@robspeakman (1700)
•
10 Feb 13
You come across as a little elitist - Keep the low earning plebs on the bottom rungs and you and your ilk can continue to look down on them and feel better about yourself.
What people like you don't realise is that everyone has a role to play - They may clean toilets or wash dishes, but if they did not do those jobs who would.
The shelf stackers are doing the job so that you can go shopping and pick stuff of the shelves.
Without the toilet cleaners, we can not have the CEO's
Those jobs at the lower rung are the most important jobs in the economy of any country.
They should be paid accordingly.
Your misguided views block what is obvious - The rest of the pay rates will rise accordingly - Capitalism and market need will dictate that.
Stop looking down on people - It is disgusting
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
11 Feb 13
Elitist? I worked for minimum wage back when it was $4.25/hour and I was happy to do it. It's not about keeping anyone on the bottom rungs. It's about HAVING bottom rungs. As mentioned above, raising the minimum wage priced baggers out of existence in most stores and forced cashiers to do twice the work.
I don't look down on the kid bagging groceries, I used to do that. I don't look down on the kid stocking shelves, I used to do that too. I washed dishes when I worked at Taco Bell, but I was making a heft 4.40/hour by then, so I was feeling pretty good. I got a raise to $4.75 after 6 months so, again, I was feeling pretty good. Then minimum wage went up to $4.75/hour. so new people were being hired at that rate that I'd earned. Guess what I got. That's right, $4.75/hour. Just because the government forced them to pay new people more didn't change what my skills and experience were worth to my employer.
"Those jobs at the lower rung are the most important jobs in the economy of any country."
If that's how you feel, then why do you support pricing them out of existence?
"he rest of the pay rates will rise accordingly - Capitalism and market need will dictate that."
Show me ONE example where that has actually happened. Every time the minimum wage goes up, the only people that get raises are minimum wage employees. Why? Because the MARKET dictates the value of employees. The government can't dictate that. All they can do is force employers to overpay unskilled, inexperienced workers which means less jobs, and higher costs for businesses which inevitable get passed on to the consumer.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
11 Feb 13
Rob: A person's "worth" is relative, so I won't quibble on that front. But in terms of shelf stackers, toilet cleaners, and other low-rung employees, their right to higher pay perhaps makes sense on the big corporation level -- Wal-Mart, Target, etc.
But what about the other 90+% of businesses that aren't huge corporations with million-dollar CEOs?
What happens when the business owner who isn't wealthy has to pay people more? Minimum wage increases mean that everyone has to pay them, not only the ubercorps with the archetype forked tongue CEO. Not only the large chains (many of which are franchises, owned by average people making $60k/year and working 70 hours/week).
Huge corporations can afford it. The public sector, while it can't afford it, can still do it, since they'll just take money regardless. But that guy who has two mortgages, his credit maxed out, and his insurance dropped all so he can stay in business. He has to pay it too.
This well-intentioned "worth" nonsense is driving everyone out of business except those incredibly large corporations. Then they just get richer. Then Pinkos cry more and ask how it happened. 
@urbandekay (18278)
•
10 Feb 13
No, they don't think everyone's wage will go up but it will raise the wage of those poor, who are struggling
all the best, urban
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
10 Feb 13
How will it help the poor who get laid off when companies can't afford to pay them the higher rate? How will it help the poor who are looking for jobs when businesses have less money available to hire new employees? The number of Americans filing new jobless claims is over 300,000 a week right now.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
10 Feb 13
Yeah. But nobody really cares about those people filing jobless claims. The government will take care of them.
Greedy business needs to do its part to pay the shelf stackers like real human beings, don'tchaknow. So the lucky few (and this explains tenure in teachers' unions perfectly, btw) on long enough will reap the rewards and stand as a testament to the effectiveness of artificial wage increases.
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
11 Feb 13
Years ago, they tried to pass a law that would stop retailers etc. from raising prices when minimum wage and the COLA went up...Yeah, you know where that law went...It is a gimic. They are just easing their consciences into thinking that they are "helping the poor" when they are just screwing everyone...
Fire 50% of government workers and let the other 50% actually do some work...Then tell the fired to go get a job...good luck slackers...
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
10 Feb 13
One of the grocery stores in my area got rid of the sackers to reduce costs. So far the others haven't followed suit, but I suspect there will be others in time.
The whole idea of a business is production and profit. It isn't to make sure the little guy has a living wage. That's on the individual. Certain jobs are only meant to be a stepping stone. Working at Walmart,etc. is not a career although quite a few of the employees make it one.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
10 Feb 13
I see the same thing in most grocery stores. When I was a teenager, making $4.25/hour to bag groceries, there was a bagger at every register. It was an easy job with flexible hours and minimal training. Sure, the pay stunk, but we were in highschool. That $75-$95 paycheck sure bought a lot of fast food, movie tickets, and, for me, an $800 Ford Tempo.
For the few people who actually wanted to make a career out of working there, that job was a foot in the door which led to promotions to cashier, front end manager, etc. Now cashiers are the new minimum wage employee and they have to do all the bagging themselves. Less people employed, and double the work for those that still have jobs.
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
11 Feb 13
My first job I made $2.55 an hour.
These same ones complaining about the minimum wage not being high enough wouldn't lift a finger to help someone in need. They wouldn't buy from the crafters and artisans, the indie writer, etc. If they really cared so much they would but they don't care so they won't. They just want someone else to pay.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
10 Feb 13
When I read this title on the myLot's homepage in the Politics section, my immediate answer was "The morons trying to get elected."
There seem to be two main schools of thought on this (a lot of others, if anyone wishes to quibble, but two "main"), and I wouldn't even call it political. I'd call it: People who know how to operate a successful small business, and everyone else who feels money is imaginary and people are automatically deserving of it.
What you say is the cold, hard truth. Businesses have to profit.
I can't help but to agree with you, even if I really wanted to play the contrarion and disagree, because I know all about small business. I've operated businesses. My brother has a business. My uncles have businesses. My best friend has a business. We're small business people in my neck of the woods.
If a restaurant makes $10k/week with 10 employees making $10/hour, that's already 40% in labor costs, plus insurance and other implications. Then tack on another 30% for food costs, another 30% for rent, all types of insurance, utilities, marketing, etc, and the boss has four logical choices. 1) Receive no pay at all and end up on the Food Network's Restaurant Impossible. 2) Fire people. 3) Raise prices on the food served. 4) Go out of business.
What usually happens is 2 and 3.
So not only do people lose their jobs, as well as MASSIVE discrimination in the hiring process, but that $10/hour evens out universally in only a few years. $10 becomes the old $8, from the old $6, from the old $5 and so on.
This artificial inflation of rates does more damage to the economy than a thousand GWBs or BHOs could ever do.
The people who believe that it's a good thing people will be making more money are, in my estimation, too stubborn or foolish to realize what's happening, or more bigoted against poor, uneducated people than they'd ever claim a guy like Romney to be.
For every pay raise someone has to receive in a small business, that's one less job out there. What does that person do? What do the people do who can't fill that position because no one is going to risk that much money on a person attempting to learn on the job?
Of course, the unspoken (sometimes) solution behind an employee raise is a manager/boss pay cut. Because Wall Street CEOs and Internet billionaires have tilted the numbers so drastically, the folks who don't know business from a hole in the ground assume that any and everyone in charge of a business is in the 1% and making far too much money.
Yeah. I can't help but to echo here. It's idealism, not realism.
Money cannot be invented by the average business owner to dole out to employees on a whim. There are implications to this action, such as having fewer employees or employees working fewer hours, and having to hire people more skilled to get more production for the expense.
It always reminds me of the video clip I watched of that busboy yelling into the camera that he was "equal" to the business owner and thus deserved to make as much. This is how I see the people who push for these wage hikes as some sort of "solution."
They're thinking with their hearts, not with their heads. Want people to have a "living" wage? Do things to bring the cost of living down!
You don't drive wages up, you chadrools! This is 9th grade economics. It doesn't take Jonah Hill from Moneyball, ffs.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
11 Feb 13
The funny thing is that I've heard some preach this myth that raising minimum wage, will make people richer, thus they'll buy more stuff, so it will make businesses richer, and then they'll magically be ok because they're richer and can keep paying people more.
It's a bizarre cyclical logic, but people who have no business experience are sure of this.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
10 Feb 13
And let me add here too while I'm thinking about it:
This is starting to seem a bit odd as I mull over it in my mind.
It seems more and more like it's the politicians trying to increase wages who are really the big-business-friendly bozos.
I mean, you don't even really have to connect the dots. They connect themselves.
A minimum wage increase hits everyone equally. However, the implications are disproportionate. The mom 'n' pop store can't afford it. They're going to be driven out of business. But Wal-Mart can afford it. Sure, they'll have fewer people working there, and those Rollbacks won't be rolled back quite as much. But it's the big corporations able to stay in business, not the small businesses.
So it's so incredibly ironic that I can't even really put it together in my jumbled mind.
It's usually the more social-driven people b1tching about a person's "worth" who are so demanding of wage increases, but the only businesses to come out smelling like roses are those large corporations those same social-driven people blame for ruining the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suVjclu8Zo
@trruk1 (1028)
• United States
11 Feb 13
The same arguments come up every time there is a suggestion to raise the minimum wage. Just political fluff, with no economic basis for opposition to the increase. Claims are always made that it will hurt low-wage earners, rather than help. That is clearly false and the historical evidence is solid. Curiously, the assertion that opposition to an increase in the minimum wage is based on concern for those at the bottom levels of the economic ladder is always advanced by those who have made it clear they despise the working poor. It always helps those at the very bottom. Always. An increase in the minimum wage also results in an increase in tax revenue without raising rates. The arguments against an increase in the minimum wage are not against the increase at all; they are against the very existence of a minimum wage, which is not the same issue at all.
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
11 Feb 13
"Just political fluff, with no economic basis for opposition to the increase."
So what you're saying is that you have NOT seen the prices of goods increase over the years is that it? I guess you haven't noticed that grocery stores who previously had a bagger at every register now have little to no baggers and require the cashiers to bag your groceries as they check them out. Surely you haven't noticed that you no longer have teenagers who, after bagging your groceries, offer to take them out to your car right?
When I was a bagger, working for $4.25/hour, we were required to ask EVERY customer if we could take their groceries out for them, no exceptions. If the manager saw a customer leave without being offered such help, she'd demand a bagger go running to offer help. Now you could have 10 checkout lanes open at a grocery store and you'll be lucky if there are more than two baggers who most likely won't offer to take out your groceries after they're done since they must run to another register to help.
I don't know why you think anyone despises the working poor. Most of us started as working poor before we increased our value on the market. I'm not ashamed that I made minimum wage in highschool. I might be a bit ashamed if 18 years later I hadn't made myself more valuable, but even then, I'd rather work for minimum wage than mooch off the government.
"It always helps those at the very bottom."
Tell that to the millions of unemployed people in this country. You can start with the 300,000 plus that filed new unemployment claims last week.
"An increase in the minimum wage also results in an increase in tax revenue without raising rates."
That shows complete ignorance of the tax structure in this country. The bottom 47% of earners in this country don't pay a dime in federal income taxes. as such, raising their wages by a dollar or two an hour won't increase tax revenues at all since they'll continue to get all, or more than what they paid back in their tax returns.
"The arguments against an increase in the minimum wage are not against the increase at all; they are against the very existence of a minimum wage, which is not the same issue at all."
Depends on who you're arguing with. The issue is the same regardless. It's about the government trying to control the market value of workers. That's not the government's job and it does a poor job of it. It's the job of the free market.
@trruk1 (1028)
• United States
12 Feb 13
More unsubstantiated nonsense. I did not say that when low-wage workers get a pay increase they pay more in income taxes. I said tax revenues increase, and indeed they do. Distortion of the meaning of a statement is a common tactic used by many to change the subject, usually because they cannot refute the actual words that were used. I know about the tax structure and I said nothing about income taxes. That is trying to twist my words to fit your meaning. Pay attention now.
When people at the lower end of the economic scale get an increase in income, they spend all or nearly all of it. Local sales go up, sales tax revenues go up, and the increased spending benefits the economy as a whole. They also pay higher taxes for Social Security and Medicare. That 47% number has been in the news a lot recently. Considered as a percentage of income, the people at the bottom pay much higher taxes than those at the top of the income scale. That 47% includes most of those who receive Social Security and many who are retired from a career in the military.
@ladysilver (370)
•
10 Feb 13
People don't get it.My cousin works in a milk factory,and this year the government raised the minimum wage.Those who earned below that wage, were happy, but those who earned a little more like my cousin got their salary reduced.Now he gets less and works even more.What a great idea that was.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
11 Feb 13
You're right. Obama's minions are just claiming companies like Papa Johns and Darden Restaurants are evil, but even GOVERNMENT organizations are doing it. When the law says employees working over 30 hours get certain benefits, you end up with a whole lot of 29 hour employees. In Tampa, FL they passed a law some years back saying that all part time employees got certain benefits too. Now there are a whole lot of employees working 19 hours a week who can't even work a single extra hour because the city can't afford to pay the benefits that would come with it.
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
11 Feb 13
That is horrible...
It will get worse though...Those new employees will not last the year...Obamderthalcare will take care of that...Companies all over the US are cutting hours or firing people because they cannot afford the insurance requirements...
It will get worse though...Those new employees will not last the year...Obamderthalcare will take care of that...Companies all over the US are cutting hours or firing people because they cannot afford the insurance requirements...@ladysilver (370)
•
11 Feb 13
We are in a great mess,and it seems that it's becoming a global problem.In Germany they don't even have minimum wage, except several professions.I wonder how their system works.
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
11 Feb 13
When they raise minimum wage or the COLA, the prices of everything goes up to grab that dinero...My rent just went up $50 a month because of the COLA...I don't get it, but I live in a "tax credit" community, so they figure everyone got the increase...Yeah, right. those of us not on SS or the dole, do not get this, we just pay for it. I had to turn off my cable tv because I will not be able to pay rent and cable...Not to mention, they are not allowed to raise the rent at a 'tax credit complex' except to new people moving in...but, they are doing it to everyone as they resign their lease...
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
10 Feb 13
People don't understand that minimum wage jobs were never meant to support a family or even a single person--they used to be for teens and students or people wanting to bring in some extra money. Raising minimum wage will cut the number of jobs available and raise prices of products.
The problem is that the people have no working knowledge of economics or understanding of how businesses work. When they hear that and oil company made several billion last year they think all that is profit, they wouldn't know a profit margin from a hole in the ground. They don't connect the cost of doing business with the price of products or understand supply and demand. Until the people bother to educate themselves about how capitalism works, politicians will continue to screw it up.
@julyteen (13252)
• Davao, Philippines
11 Feb 13
I thought that this story only exist in our country. Minimum wage increase already longing by most of the employees here but until now no increase happen. It seems that the government are blind and deaf about this issue. Hoping that this coming election the new elected officials will hear the voice of the people
@jambi462 (4576)
• United States
11 Feb 13
Unfortunately raising minimum wage really only helps to aid in inflation for everything. I'm guessing that gas prices are probably incredibly high in Illinois as well. I've found that get raises in my wages has only led to me getting more taxes taken out of my paycheck.
You also bring up a good point in automatically raising everyone's wage to ten dollars an hour. In my opinion ten dollars an hour is a really good wage and I don't think that brand new employees are going to be worth it every time. I feel that there are a lot of workers out there in Illinois that are earning ten dollars an hour and they have been working hard at their jobs for years and aren't able to get a raise because their bosses are cheap. I'm hoping that these minimum wage raises won't hurt people in Illinois to bad.
@aerous (13434)
• Philippines
11 Feb 13
Well, that is how politics will play. We need to follow on what does government officials will do. Because we are only following what does the law all about. We need to change those laws to establish a good option with our future but the bad thing was we can't choose a public officials that really care for the public
@eagletrek2 (5499)
• Kingston, New York
10 Feb 13
Hi as a low wages worker I know that raising the
Min wage will not help.it cut hours
lay people off.and if some make more
No more raise. Today in retail
The stores only hire people for 4 hours a day
3 days. A week. This way no one get any medical
or others benfits. Fast food the same way.most jobs
Do not care about there employees any more.
This is why customer service is down in retail.
And I am a low wage worker. My area is farm country upstate NY
Low wage jobs are better then no jobs.
@Fatcat44 (1141)
• United States
10 Feb 13
What I do not like is that many of the youth will not find jobs with the wage increase.
I like people to make more money, but they need to better themselves so they can.
Forcing employers to pay more will only lead to more job losses. Some how our politicians do not understand the principle. That, or like you say, they do it for voting purposes.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
10 Feb 13
Finding a job as a highschool student was hard enough back in the 90's when the minimum wage was $4.25 because kids, with no job experience had to convince an employer that they were worth the cost of hiring and training. Now, with minimum wage being so high, these kids are competing with adults with actual job experience. It's not fair to young people in my opinion.
I've literally had people in their 30s and 40s with college degrees apply for minimum wage jobs where I work.
