Women in the Church
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
Philippines
December 10, 2006 7:52pm CST
Prohibition for women:"Let the women in the ekklesias be silent; for it is not permitted to them to speak, but let them be subjected as also the Law says. And if they will to learn something, let them ask their own men in the house; for it is shameful for a woman to speak in an ekklesia" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
I am a woman but with no husband. I am a member of the Church of Christ. Yes, I do not speak in the church BUT I translate the Word of God from Greek to English and have published THE WILL New Testament (Greek to English) and GENESIS & EXODUS (Greek to English) and keep on translating to publish them as soon as possible, God willing.
Many say that because I am a woman, I am not allowed to translate the Word of God; translation is included in the prohibition. Of course, I do not agree with such an opinion; otherwise, I would not have done it.
How about you? Would you mind speaking out what you think? Thank you very much and may God bless all of us. SEN
5 people like this
41 responses
@proofsay (661)
• Indonesia
11 Dec 06
I am a woman and had collect some people around my place to pray together every friday.that isnt about we are woman or man but i believe the meaning of the prohibition is a woman cant stand infront of the church speek and teach them.The organisation of church some of it regulated that but is alright if do some thing to our God.Not just behind but also make some thing more real.Dont be afried we not allow the prohibition cause God never give us wrong talent.Have a nice work and may God Bless us.Ldy
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
11 Dec 06
Thank you very much. May God bless you all there, wherever you are. SEN
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
13 Dec 06
That is so (I believe) because if they had all of a sudden begun to speak and teach in those days, it would have caused such an uproar, the gospel would have been shipwrecked! It would also be pointless for women to speak in front of men who feel they are superior to women. But God Himself formed women from man's side, not feet (nor head) - chose Jesus to come into the world through woman, and Jesus revelaed himself first, after the resurrection, to women. They are an integral part of the whole thing. And don't forget how Priscilla and others were accepted as teachers or integral soon enough, in the first churches... I can't speak for any other religion, but christianity :))
2 people like this
@nobodyspecial (1011)
• United States
11 Dec 06
I think much of what is said was influenced by the times...at one time women were not expected to receive an education. Most writings were done by men with male prejudices intact.
I am reminded of an old addage I was taught in school...when in doubt use the male gender...
And lastly, I seem to remember reading...
Let those with ears hear, and those with voices speak.
Seem pretty open to me.
2 people like this
@Silverchic (396)
• Australia
11 Dec 06
That's actually the second time today and the second time in my whole life that I have heard that adage (when in doubt use the male gender).
I have to admit that I'm actually quite pleased that has been taken out of teachings - I was never taught it at school and I've been out of school for a fair few years now. I see it as extremely old fashioned and quite irrelevant to today's society.
Women today are just as capable of translating from one language to another as men are. I won't comment on the rest of it as I am not religious and when it comes to teaching I see men and women as equal.
2 people like this
@domenyag (1273)
• Philippines
11 Dec 06
you Can translate the Word of God from GReek to English or to whatever language you want. The versse that you quote was applicable only inside the church. That a woman should not preach inside the church but the men. Because Christ is the head. It is the men. So women are advised not to preach in the church but they are allowed to testify.
@janet069 (663)
• United States
11 Dec 06
I do not intrepret it exactly the same way as you do. I do not believe a women can preach and I do not believe she can take part in the business of the church. It sounds to me like you are doing a great service to the Lord by providing translations. If it helps one person then it is worth the effort. I am Baptist and I know there is a lot of difference between "religions" but we all serve the same God and we all strive to reach the same place in the end. God bless you and have a safe holiday season.
2 people like this
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
11 Dec 06
The translation I am undertaking is not the business of the congregation I belong to - I do it on my own. I do not preach in the church.
Yes, I really do serve God thru the translations and help people to a great extent; it is worth the effort really.
Thank you very much and may God bless you all there too. SEN
1 person likes this
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
10 Feb 07
I should like to take the opportunity here to extend my appreciation to all those who responded or gave comments to responses and as a gesture of gratitude, I have rated you all with the positive rating. I will also rate positively all others that will still be responding or giving comments to
responses. May God bless you all.
1 person likes this
@erminiasanjose (1588)
• Philippines
3 Feb 07
I personally believe that this prohibition does not apply to translation. Translating is not speaking in the church as contemplated in the pertinent verses of the Holy Bible. Go on with your translation and I hope that you finish translating also the whole Old Testament.
2 people like this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
13 Dec 06
I believe if women in the New Testament first 'churches' were to all of a sudden, in that day and age, begun to speak and teach, it would have started such an uproar, the gospel would have been shipwrecked! But soon enough in the New Testament, Priscilla, for instance was referred to as a teacher. And I can't forget how God "formed woman from man's side" (not feet) and in such a way, that Adam proclaimed "Finally! flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone". And called Eve "the mother of us all". A young woman, Mary, birthed "the savior of the world". Jesus too, treated women very well. Was caught in conversation wtih them... after his resurrection from the grave, he revealed Himself first to women... Also, both the church, and Israel is called a "woman". Wisdom, in the book of Proverbs, is called "she" - "she raises her voice". Also some of the prophecies concerning the birth of Jesus were given through women.. Mary, and Elizabeth... and Anna the prophetess too. God bless :))
1 person likes this
@ipissakusina (930)
• United States
4 Jan 07
i admire because of your job or hobby of translating the bible. it should be tough.
i see nothing wrong with you translating the bible. those people who said that you're not allowed to because you're a woman, for me, has a wrong interpretation of that verse or just being so superistitious.
that verse only want to tell us, the member of the congregation, that women are not allowed to teach, i mean standing on a flatform, inside the church or congregation. for it is the procedure, the head of a woman is man. now if there's no qualified male member to teach, the most qualified woman may do it, with her head veiled.
@SimplyMe (373)
• United States
11 Dec 06
I am a United Methodist and we currently have a woman pastor who recently completed her PhD in Theology. She is also a wife and mother. She is an excellent preacher of God's word. She does it like no other. I agree with others that times are differnt now. I do not believe that God would prohibit a woman from any kind of work that would advance His teachings. Throughout history, men were more powerful and richer than women, so they made all the rules. Many of those rules, such as the ones prohibiting women from working in the church, would seem to me to be ways to keep men in power and have nothing to do with God or His word or will.
1 person likes this
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
13 Dec 06
Thanks a lot.
BUT nobody could ever change the Holy Bible. The prohibition is a prohibition, obey or not, take it or leave it.
Many women are really better than men in teaching or even preaching in the church but it's not because they are good that they do even what is prohibited.
God has laid out the order: God head of Christ who is head of man who is head of woman.
Man which is anthropos in Greek includes all human beings - men and women alike. The man which is aner in Greek refers to male, female not included, and some of that aner is translated by many as husband. Gune pronounced as gyne in English where gynecology, etc. came from is woman some of which were translated wife. In the Bible, the husband is the head of the wife.
I am a woman who has no husband and therefore my direct head is Christ. But even then, I am still a woman prohibited to teach/preach in the church although I am also capable of doing that and I do not do that because I want to obey.
The controversy lies on whether or not translation is teaching or preaching.
I appreciate the woman you are referring to who has even completed PhD in Theology; she must really be intelligent.
May God bless all of us. SEN
@vinod_sailes (214)
• India
11 Dec 06
My reply is to SEN. I personally feel your inclination to do acts of translation and scripting on Holy Books is an inspiration through the intercession of the Holy Spirit. You are fully at liberty to spread the word of God in the manner and style that appeals to you most. Incidentally, from what I understand, you are not a Roman Catholic. Roman Catholics receives interpretation or translation duly authorised in the manner and style by the Holy Father. Catholics therefore,do not take the liberty of attaching any meaning or translation to a certain category of works related to God and the Bible. In doing so, there could be more controversies on writings made in the Bible. As regards the issue of Women being forbidden to do script, it is all humbug. Women have as much capability and right to do a job that they are inclined to. In fact, the present day world has many script writers and editors who have excelled in their own way. You have my support. Incidentally, I am a Roman Catholic, but I appreciate the job you are doing ie spreading the word of God.
1 person likes this
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
12 Dec 06
It is God who gives the Holy Spirit. After baptism into Christ on October 1, 1989, according to Acts 2:38, I am given the gift of the Holy Spirit. Each Christian receives his/her own gift. It so happens that I am given the gift of knowledge and understanding the Bible Greek (Koine) and we are to use whatever gift given us and so to use such rare gift of knowledge and understanding, I translate the Word of God from Greek.
The New Testament was written in Greek while the Old, in Hebrew but which was translated into Greek by 70 Israelite elders in 270 B.C. in Alexandria, Egypt, upon the orders of King Ptolemy.
I have already translated THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT with the permission of the German Bible Society who owns the copyright and the translation is entitled THE WILL New Testament (Greek to English).
In the Holy Bible, women are prohibited to teach/preach in the church. The controversy lies whether or not translation is included in the prohibition.
Yes, as a Christian it is my duty to preach the Word and myLot is a very effective means to this end. Thank you very much and may God bless you. SEN
@vinod_sailes (214)
• India
8 Jan 07
I concur with your response. However, your dilemma as to whether women are prohibited to preach or teach in the Bible vis-a-vis the teaching emanating from the Bible (This is quoting you as you say, that women have been prohibited in the Bible and I have no knowledge of that particular point), automatically becomes answered by the fact that Bible and the teachings of Jesus was over 2000 years old where the circumstances were different. Jesus, as a man could not stand testimony for a time 2000 years hence, which fact could have been misconstrued by the pharsees and scribes who were out to wreak vengeance on Him. But as of today, women have become an integral part of the mainstream of life and their share of participation in bringing the flock to the one only pen, is a vital need if we go by the utterance of Jesus himself where it is stated "unless you be converted and become like little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". We need, therefoer, to propagate the word of God in a wider manner, so that we bring together as many people into the path of God the Almighty. With Satan launching crude methods of trapping men and women away from God, there is a need to utilize the time at our disposal to safeguard the good ones from being led astray.
1 person likes this
@boeyong (256)
• Malaysia
12 Dec 06
1Cor 14:34 - "let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak but let them be in subjection, even as the Law says".
What does this mean? That women worshippers keep their mouth shut during Christian meetings? No!
At the weekly theocratic school of Jehovah's Witnesses (one of the five meetings we have weekly), sisters were given talk assignments on the platform, though not standing behind a lectern (we do not have a pulpit). They are given a subject to talk about, choose their settings and have a partner (another sister) and have a discussion sitting down. They are also given parts in demonstrating how we can be more effective in our ministry. Sisters are given every opportunity to comment during Book Study, Magazine Study or any other meeting parts that encourages comments based on the subject at hand. Women are a formidable force when it comes to the ministry because they may be able to venture into territory and at certain times when and where men (brothers) are not able to do so. Our sisters conduct many home bible studies and have the privilege of seeing their studies progress to the point of baptism and have a greater share in the ministry as pioneers. Psalm 68:11 - "Jehovah Himself gives the saying: The women telling the good news are a large army". And if congregations lack a qualified brother to conduct the meetings, a mature sister can substitute provided she wears a head covering, signifying her recognition of God's headship arrangement.
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
11 Dec 06
Some groups allow women to teach/preach in the church. But the Holy Bible clearly prohibits that and I do not at all want to disobey God.
Thank you very much and may God bless you. SEN
@gokufatherofgohan (72)
• United States
11 Dec 06
have to admit that I'm actually quite pleased that has been taken out of teachings - I was never taught it at school and I've been out of school for a fair few years now. I see it as extremely old fashioned and quite irrelevant to today's society.
@manong05 (5027)
• Philippines
8 Jan 07
I wonder how many people have taken this verse out of context. Just applying good exegetical principles will show us the real intent of the writer. Women were not permitted to speak in the church.Why? The same verse, apparently say that women in those days that the writer referrred to were not that silent, either talking to themselves, or discussing other things that they were much better off going home and ask their husbands. Too much talk and useless babblings have already reached a level that it became shameful and hence the prohibition. Since when did people start interpreting this verse as a general prohibition for women of today and of all generations to talk in the church? Can it be influenced or colored with the culture and mores of the day, when men dominated the society. Is this a prohibition to stop noisy women and ask them to be silent? or a universal prohibition that when a woman enters the church, she should zip her mouth. Just curious.
1 person likes this
@robbiekarlos (4)
•
12 Jan 07
lady, even jesus was born of a woman, you are just as brilliant as everyone else. Persecution and downgrading of woman was only the mask of scared men who knew they more physically able. I think your a gem and there is not enough people like you in the world.
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
13 Jan 07
Thank you very much... a very good moral bolster. May God bless you.
@mtdewgurl74 (18151)
• United States
11 Dec 06
I myself thinks the bible needs to be updated for these days and times. The world has changed. I think men and women should have equal rights in a church. The bible has alot of things in it that the men don't listen to or do. And look at the ten commandments they were meant for all of us and men break them more then women do. I think a woman can pass on a message from God just as good as any man can without some of the hoopla men have. Well this is my opinion I live surrounded by people who think differently then me and sometimes it gets to me and drives me batty that men still in this day and age can think like that still.
1 person likes this
@nilzerous1 (2434)
• India
11 Dec 06
It is nice to meet a holy-spirit like you in early morning hours. And it is so disheartening to see that regarding the translation of "Word of God", many people are offering comments, you being an women.
Days are changing Madam, and so do we. If people just keep pushing women aside, that is not going to do any better to this civilization.
And moreover, who the Men are to set-aside their counterparts?
I find it is a furse, it is disheartening, it is discouraging to note that in this space-age, a lot of us, have actually failed to come out of our Primitive habits.
In fine, we take pride in you for the way you have come forward. May God bless us all.
1 person likes this
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
11 Dec 06
Thank you very much. Yes, may God bless all of us. SEN
@craftwave (1338)
• United States
11 Dec 06
Many people read a verse or two and take it out of context to what is around it. They also ignore the fact of what life was like when that scripture was written. During Jesus time society was patriachal or dominated by men. Until Jesus came along women were not taught scripture and it was disrespctful for a women to usurp what was percieved at that time as the man's role. The scripture you are talking about is about keeping order in the church so people can worship. It is not a directive that women cannot participate in a church service. Chap 11:5 talks about women praying and prophesing in public. Also later you read about Priscilla teaching men who are preparing to go out and preach. As society has gone from patriarchal to a more even handling of things it changed also what women were allowed to do. A women preaching a sermon would not today cause a disrutpion in the worship service as it would have in Jesus's time. We are taught the bible today and we know the scriptures. I'm not a womens libber. So I don't take this point of view just to promote "womens'rights". I take this point of view 1) because it is scriptural and 2) God wants to use women to get his message out as well as men. He has not restricted this job to men only. Scripture says the harvest is ready but the laborers are few. Why are they few. Some just don't want to do it. Others are afraid because of restrictions that man (humans) has placed on them. Notice I say man not God. I know what I talk about. I was in a denomination where women were restricted. I can honestly say that what you are doing is not wrong. Scripture says God looks on the heart but man looks on the outer. If God is telling you to do this then forget about the man. It is God you will stand before come judgement day not man. As you translate ask yourself what was happening when this scripture was written and does the same situation exist today. It helps to get a good bible with footnotes that explains what was happening at the time.
1 person likes this
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
11 Dec 06
It is God who gives wisdom. To prove that I did not do it in magic, I also published GREEK-ENGLISH (Grammar & Vocabulary), and WORDS in THE WILL New Testament to support that THE WILL New Testament (Greek to English) is not a blah-blah. Although we can understand the will of God from the versions of the Holy Bible circulating around the world, the fact remains that they are versions and it is generally accepted that 80% of which are not translations.
THE WILL New Testament (Greek to English) is 99.99% translation and the difference from the existing versions is big.
Speaking in the church means standing in the pulpit and preach the Word or conducting Bible studies as a church work.
Thank you very much and may God bless you. SEN
@mtbkanata (248)
• Canada
11 Dec 06
You know, it's 2006.
You don't have to believe in god to know that women are equal in every way to men.
Here is an example of how crazy some old traditions are.
I was standing for a friend in his wedding. It was his and his wife's choice to have the wedding at a catholic church, so that was fine... I'm not going to judge. My friend's best man was actually a woman, who was his best friend since grade 1. Now during the rehearsal, we found out that she was not allowed with the rest of us groomsmen into the small room behind the church platform... some sort of rule that women are not allowed... I asked, "Are you serious?" It's 2004 (it was at the time).
What do those crazy traditions hold in value? Why do you think they are still practiced?
I don't have to believe in the bible to see that you are a true scholar, and probably very skilled at what you do. It would be a shame to have your work not recognized because of your gender.
@arseniajoaquin (1732)
• Philippines
11 Dec 06
Funny really...
It is God who gives wisdom and He gives spiritual gifts to those who obey Him. I never had the ambition to be translating the Holy Bible from Greek to English for what do I know. But after baptism into Christ, no it was not like magic, but it's so fast that I came to learn and understand it then found myself translating and have substantially translated THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT in 200 days! Who would believe that!
Despite so many hardships, I do what I am supposed to do as a servant of God, no matter what.
Thank you very much and may God bless you. SEN
@wyrdsister (584)
• Canada
11 Dec 06
I personally would not be able to be a member of a religion that did not put women and men on equal footing in all things. While I value many teachings of different religious and spiritual traditions such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, I could not happily be a member of the subsets of these religions that do not give equal religious rights to women.
I feel you should follow your own spiritual path and do the things you feel God calls you to do. You have a place in God's plan, and it is up to God to communicate to you what that role is, NOT the whims of your human religious leaders. Follow where God leads - God does not stear us wrong.
BB,
~Wyrdsister