is all magic black?
By ESKARENA1
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
December 16, 2006 6:48am CST
As a wiccan, i occasionaly carry out rituals that some people call witch craft, i have never hurt anyone yet some christians have tried to tell me im flirting with the devil, where does this idea come from, and is all magic bad, if you feel this why?
6 people like this
31 responses
@wyrdsister (584)
• Canada
16 Dec 06
I personally believe that magick is not black or white or any colour - magick is energy with no values or morals attached to it whatsoever. It is what you DO with that energy that is coloured or valued. It is your INTENT behind your work that is white, black, grey, blue, green, purple, gold or chartruse. ;)
Think of nuclear energy. All atoms and molecules are held together by nuclear forces (that is, forces that attract or repell the nuclei of other atoms - roughly anyway). Those nuclear forces have no moral implications. It is when we as humans take advantage of these forces that the moral implications come out. Do we create electricity to provide power to warm homes and run irrigation systems? Or do we create bombs that kill thousands upon thousands of people and polute the planet for centuries to come?
I know that's a pretty outrageous example as the magick we do does not nearly approach those proportions, but I think it outlines my point pretty well.
Blessed Be from a fellow Wiccan!
~Wyrdsister
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
16 Dec 06
blessed be sister you make your point well may peace be your guide
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
17 Dec 06
"I personally believe that magick is not black or white or any colour - magick is energy with no values or morals attached to it whatsoever. It is what you DO with that energy that is coloured or valued. It is your INTENT behind your work that is white, black, grey, blue, green, purple, gold or chartruse.;)"
"chartuse" LOL I agree though completely...magick has no colour nor is it good or bad and though I agree that the value comes from ones intent I have to say that even then I dont always think there is a good or bad....as I've said in other threads...if i need to cross someone etc I will..if I need to so called 'meddle' with someone, I will....some would consider those things negative or black/bad magick...I on the other hand do not see it that way..I protect my home and family and if someone crosses the line I will deal with it accordingly....many only look at the surface and say "well thats not right 'harm none'" blah blah blah but the surface isnt where its at...the core is my protecting my family which is never bad/negative etc.....
did that makes sense?
4 people like this
@brendalee (6082)
• United States
16 Dec 06
I think they say those things because they don't understand your ways and it goes against what they believe. But if you think about it, its not really as different as it seems. I do believe that the ones who intend to cause harm are bad and they give the good ones a bad name. By the way, my boyfriend is studying Wicca and I also have an interest. I'm still a lost soul and not really sure what to believe. All I know is that my faith in god is in serious doubt right now.
3 people like this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
16 Dec 06
you will find your own way to your truth blessed be you will find the right path for you. I too did a lot of reading and for me the wiccan way works
1 person likes this
@Ohara_1983 (4117)
• Kuwait
16 Dec 06
well for me i think not bad as long as you didn't
use it in a wrong way or to hurt people. also to the
people has a narrow mind that's why they misunderstand
your ability or talent. as i remember my grandfather
has an ability like your's and he used only for fun
to his grandchild not for business. and don't listen
to them what people say to you ma'am, we know that
they are only insecure because you have an special gift
that you can't see to the other people:)
@nuffsed (1271)
•
8 Jan 07
I believe the only Black magic comes from Cadburys. :)
I have experimented with a oija board...Never again!!! OOOOH The glass exploded violently...were we shocked?!!!!
I am fascinated by Paganism and what I shall call respect and regard for nature.
Christians are full of... dogma and demonisation and condemnation. A bit like Bush... If you aren't with us, you are against us and on your way to hell. lol
2 people like this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
8 Jan 07
thank you for your insightful comments.
I have too much knowledge and experience of the spiritual realm to play with Oija boards, you have to be either very brave or very foolish i would say. Yes most religions of the book hate us, one day i will understand it
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
10 Jan 07
"I believe the only Black magic comes from Cadburys"
LMFAO omg Nuff you are too damn funny!!
@SpitFire179 (2536)
• Canada
31 Dec 06
They think this because of the wiccan hangings back when... It's pathetic because if they actually look into history, they'll find that Wiccan/Peganism came about long before Christianity, They just don't understand how pure most of our rituals/spirituality is... Most magiv is good, Though nothing is completely pure, the best is in the grey area. There is black magic, yeah, when people use magic to harm another or change their thoughts, make them do something that you want them to. But for total purification, protection and rituals that truly follow our motos and spirituality, it's not black.
Take care, Blessed be.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
31 Dec 06
thank you, i agree no dogma should limit our experience thats for sure
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
31 Dec 06
the "grey" area...thats true or as I like to say "its a rainbow of colour" which it really is IMO its never as simple as black or white..then again in my world nothing in life is as simple as black and white which is a good thing really considering that is so limiting ya know...
1 person likes this
@wmg2006 (5381)
• United States
6 Mar 07
This comes being taught it as a child. My parents taught me that anything non christian was evil! Of course now that I am grown and can think for myself I see where they were wrong and just very close minded. It is nothing against you personally it is just what has been handed down over time. Some of us grow and make our own decisions and some of us grow up and continue to believe what we were taught.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
6 Mar 07
yes, of course you are right. We all take our beliefs in utro from our parents, but with luck we also in time learn to think for our selves
thank you for your reply
blessed be
@NewHeart (528)
• Canada
17 Dec 06
think what most people know of witchcraft or wicca they get from tv so now you can under stand where they get the idea of magic and the devil got to admit i used to be under that impression too till met someone who was into it and told me that it was a religion that is as old as christiananity... surprised i was..lol
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
17 Dec 06
yes ive noticed that, lol. ty for your well thought out reply, blessed be
@gotcho0O (1257)
• United States
23 Dec 06
I have no idea about wiccan but I knew something about wizards because of Harry Potter. I am curious and interested. Where you guys came from? I mean, I've read lots of stuff in the discussion relating to the magic and all. Wow, sounds cool. I hope ya'll who are blessed to have that kind of is it a power, whatever will not use it to perform bad stuffs. Godbless.
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
31 Dec 06
blwsswd be, we work upon the principle do as you will but hurt no one, it is an art just needs practice, thats all
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
23 Dec 06
pagan beliefs follow a nature patern and predate christianity and islam by about 5 000 years at least
@SpitFire179 (2536)
• Canada
31 Dec 06
Everyone has gifts, everyone has gotten a gift or more, it's just if they decide to persue it or not.
@shilpa28k (1737)
• India
3 Jan 07
Black magic or dark magic is the branch of magic that is used to perform evil acts or that draws on malevolent powers. In the Inquisition, Christians were afraid of witches and warlocks practicing evil black magic. In modern times, witches and warlocks will use the term to describe the bad magic that they do not do in contrast with the good white magic that they do practice. Black magic would be invoked to kill, injure, or cause destruction, or for personal gain without regard to harmful consequences to others. As a term, "black magic" is normally used to describe a form of ritual that some group or person does not approve of. Not everything that is called black magic truly has malevolent intentions behind it.
Magic like this is used to directly harm one's opponent in role playing games like Final Fantasy, for example. The opposite of dark magic is white magic. Since the words "black magic" have a negative connotation in Western TV-Y rated shows, this phrase is used instead of "black magic" on Magical DoReMi.
The differences between black magic and white magic are debated. Several theories compare and contrast the two branches; these theories include the All as One theory, the No Connection theory, and the Separate but Equal theory.
All as One: All forms of magic are evil, or black, magic. This view generally associates black magic with Satanism. The religions that maintain this opinion include most branches of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism. Some people on the left-hand path would agree that all magic, whether called "white" or "black," is the same. These people would not contend that all magic is evil so much as that morality is in the eyes of the beholder -- that any magic can have both good and bad consequences depending on who judges those consequences. In this school of thought, there is no separation between benevolent and malevolent magic because there is no universal morality against which magic can be measured.
Dark Doctrine: Black magic refers to the powers of darkness, usually seen from a Left-Hand Path point of view. This may or may not contrast with White magic, depending on the sorcerer's acceptance of dualism.
Formal Differences: The forms and components of black magic are different, due to the different aims or interests of those casting harmful spells, than those of white. Harmful spellcasting tends to include symbolism which seems hazardous or harmful to human beings, such as sharp, pointed, prickly, caustic, and hot elements combined with very personal objects from the spell's target (their hair, blood, mementos, etc.). This distinction is primarily observable in folk magic, but pertains to other types of magic also.
No Connection: Black and white magic are both forms of magic, but are completely different from the base up and are accomplished differently, even if they achieve similar effects. This stance is the one most often presented in fiction, including the Harry Potter series. In such books, the two classes of magic-users are portrayed as being both ideologically and diametrically opposed.
Separate but Equal: Black and white magic are exactly the same thing, differentiated only by their end goals and intent. According to this theory, the same spell could be either white or black; its nature is determined by the end result of the spell.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
3 Jan 07
thank you for your intelligent and full response, blessed be im agreeing with you
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
10 Jan 07
copied and pasted without showing a link.....busted..sorry
http://en.allexperts.com/e/b/bl/black_magic.htm
1 person likes this
@jeweledbluerose (3061)
• United States
31 Dec 06
It's all about the intent behind what you are doing. It is neither good nor bad until the workings have been carried out that determines whether what has been done, was done in a positive or negative way. Since you have no intent on harming anyone during your rituals you have nothing to worry about. Most of the Christian faith don't take the time to fully understand the Wiccan religion, because they have been raised that doing so would be a sin and they themselves would most likely be condemned.
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
31 Dec 06
thankyou for giving me some level of understanding of the fear behind christian biggotry
@vokey9472 (1486)
• United States
3 Mar 07
I do not believe that all magick is bad. I spell it magick so that people know it isn't that silly magic that magicians do. Anyhoo....
I was raised a Christian, I went pagan for a while, I am now a Christian again. But, I was raised to believe that God is the supreme creator of all things in existence. Therefor, God created all the powers of the universe. When you practice magick you are merely harnessing the powers of the universe, created by God, and bending them to your will. So, the real question that I like to ask Christians who bash Wiccans is this: If God created the powers of the universe and all that God creates is good, how can harnessing those same powers and bending them to your will be bad or evil? So long as the first rule of Wicca is followes, do as you will but harm none, how can magick be evil??
Most of the time, they have no answer for me. I do not think that what you do is wrong, I just think that you need to acknowledge God, the supreme creator, in your rituals. I could go on for hours about my views on how Christianity and Wicca can be combined, but I don't want to take up pages and pages of space. :)
To flirt with the devil, you first have to believe that the devil exists. And which devil do you believe in? The Christian devil, the Satan of the Satanic church, or even Hades. Every religion has their own "evil" counterpart to their god, so which one are you supposed to be flirting with? I wouldn't let the view points of some fanatical Christians bother you. I don't and I have tons of conflict with some of the teachings of my own church. I have even gotten into arguements with the ministers because they quote the Bible wrong or make inane statements about how something should be read.
I think you must find your own path and when you do, you will know it. Blessed be.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
3 Mar 07
blessed be
It is good to hear some sense coming from a christian, i thank you for that. You make some interesting thoughts, what are christian prayers if not ritual? we share much
@vokey9472 (1486)
• United States
3 Mar 07
The rite of baptism is a ritual. As per the teachings of my church, you must repent of your sins, confess your sins, accept Christ as your saviour and then you must be baptized. That is a ritual. For some religions, how you pray and how often is ritual. It is always easier for some to poke fun or or critize others when they practice a faith that is not your own. I always have to ask them just how Christian they are when they persecute others for not believing as they do. Christ would never have done that. He would loved the other person without judgement. I always get upset when I hear Christians talk about setting themselves apart from those that are not Christians. Christ came here to save the sinner. Even Christ got flack from others when he would have dinner or go into the homes of those considered less desirable, but those are the people he came here to save so it only made sense that he would go into their homes. I have a feeling that there are going to be a lot of "Christians" left standing outside the pearly gates when Judgement Day comes around while there will be a lot of "non-Christians" sitting inside the pearly gates enjoying all that Heaven has to offer. God judges us by our hearts and deeds and not by what faith we practice.
I don't know about other people, but I am one Christian who believes in a loving, kind and merciful God who really doesn't care what "church" you belong to, just what kind of person you are.
1 person likes this
@beaniegdi (1964)
•
8 Mar 07
it is just that they don't understand what you do and are just going on the sort of thing you might see in films. if they maybe read some info about it they might realise that ii is just a religion and nothing to do with the devil, i think it is films etc that say it is like devil worship.
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
8 Mar 07
its strange how religions of the book seem to worry a lot about us, i dont know enough about them to say why they dont like us, but its clear they dont
blessed be
@xenatessmocker (339)
• United States
6 Mar 07
No I don't believe all magic is bad. People just try to stigmatize beliefs that don't share or understand.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
6 Mar 07
thank you for your response and the addition to debate, blessed be
Yet, why do those followers of the book religions stigmatize us in this way, and they quite clearly do
@lafavorito (2959)
• Philippines
1 Jan 07
As a Christian I know why mosts people think that Wicca and others like it, is evil. It was stated in the Bible that pagan traditions, witches and sorcerers are instruments of evil because they worship earthly things and not God. I for one do not really believe that, if you're a Wiccan but you do not hurt people then you're good, if you're a Christian but you hurt people then you're bad, it's as simple as that. Wicca is very interesting I'd like to know more about it but I don't think I can leave my religion and become a wiccan purely.
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
1 Jan 07
thank you for your positive and supportive response, you do the image of christianity no harm at all in my eyes. I have no desire to convert anyone but would be happy to share my beliefs with anyone who has an open mind
blessed be
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
1 Jan 07
Absolutely not. I had a great aunt who was branded as a witch. She was gentle loving old lady who lived on a tiny island called Luing off the coast of Oban in Scotland. I admit she was scary to look at when I was a child and spoke only Gaelic, which I didn't. My brother went to visit her on the wee island and told me she got up early every morning to gather her herbs and make her potions the locals all came to her for all their problems. She was a white witch.
From all I have read about Wicca it is a gentle religion with rituals that do not harm anyone. I had a Siamese cat who I called "Wicca" because she was so beautiful and mysterious.
Blessed Be!
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
1 Jan 07
thank you for your enlightened response it is good to know that the open minded remain amongst us
blessed be and may this new year bring all you whish to you and yours
@RenaCeline (170)
• United States
2 Mar 07
I am a Wiccan and anyone who says that we are doing witchcraft and flirting with the devil are very naive, thinking in the olden ways. Some people have this preconceived notion about Wiccans and won't think anything else. All magic isn't bad and the one thing in the Wiccan Rede is to not hurt others or it will come back to you threefold.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
3 Mar 07
yes , do as you will but hurt no one, you are correct, thank you for your reply, blessed be
@spiritwolf52 (2300)
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3 Mar 07
It's quite hard to be flirting with the devil when we don't even believe in him. Christians seem to think that the only right religion is theirs. They fear what they don't know. All magic is not bad. It really depends on how you use it and what your intentions are. Don't worry about what other people think. Stay true to yourself and your path. These people need educating. But will they ever listen to us? Probably not. Just do your own thing. As long as you are not hurting anyone, then all is right with the world. Christians really don't understand us and they probably never will.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
•
3 Mar 07
blessed be
you put in a few sentenses what i have been trying to say for years. Thank you so much
@saikat123 (235)
• India
4 Jan 07
my friend people like to call those things bad which he does not understand.same apply to ur case.
@nancyrowina (3850)
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3 Mar 07
If your not only gaining from the spell (it's not for selfish reasons) and it doesn't harm anyone it should be considered white really. I don't perform many spells as a result of the thin line between white and black magic, I mainly use magic for protection if I'm going to.
1 person likes this
@ESKARENA1 (18261)
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3 Mar 07
blessed be, i really see no difference, rather it is your intentions that make it black or white