Do we have a soul?

One of the ways I was able to see the mind, or thoughts as separate from the brain or physical body was through meditation. As difficult as it is, you can actually be in a no mind state. Or quieten the mind long enough to actually feel thoughts drop into the head. Now it may sound weird, but I have experienced it physically. I have been in states, out of my brain, where I am totally unaware of my body, yet am conscious. This is something that can be experienced by anyone patient and diligent enough to try it.

The problem with that meditative state is separating mind from brain. It is one thing to say I was not my body duing that state but another to say I was not my brain. Because we tend to experience consciousness as originating from the brain or at least the physical space where the brain is, it is impossible to objectively distinguish the two. Even in astral travel where people bring back evidence that they have seen something that they can't have known about without being there, there is no way of saying for definite whether that is mind separating from the body or the brain showing telepathic ability. On the other hand, the neuroscientists haven't yet come up with any convincing explanation for consciousness - either how the brain produces it or why.

Present your ontological argument then!

In ancient Greek literature, and also according to Rudolph Steiner the Soul refers to that part of us that is thoughts and emotions. As such it is not really a higher part of our consciousness. It is something to be transformed because if we are constantly being swayed by emotions and thoughts we can never find stillness, we are subject to reactions. It is certainly becoming confusing when different teachings refer to soul as ego, when in other great teachings ego has a capital E and is what stands for our higher self. Self (Atman) is actually an experience and is not cognised by the ordinary mind, therefore is very difficult to explain to someone who has not experienced it. And if you are not fully conscious of when you are swayed by your reactions to external influences then you really can't say you make choices in the greatest sense of the meaning of freewill.

I totally agree that free will is something that only comes once we have freed ourselves from the indoctrination and unawareness of ordinary living. I don't see soul as thoughts and emotions though. Soul is everything BUT those things. It is, to my mind, the part of ourself that can't be expressed with words. Emotions are very subject to the physical (especially if you're a woman!) and thoughts are shaped by our experiences in the world. I would say that Soul, Self and Ego (in the transpersonal sense) are roughly equivalent and are the part of us which remains constant and is unshaped by the world, it is the 'feeling' that someone has about them, their atmosphere if you like - in the same way that a house has an atmosphere. Although, I read an interesting idea yesterday when surfing the net which talked about soul loss. It suggested that, each time we experience a trauma, we lose a little bit of our soul - some of the essence or spark goes out of us. Though I don't necessarily agree that that could happen to the soul, it certainly made sense in terms of how we experience trauma. We never have feelings of emptiness in childhood, those feelings gather after life has been at us.

Hi Nicky35, I think we are a consciousness, the brain is more a physical organ. And yes the car is the vehicle in which the mind functions. Thing is to be in this world we need a physical vehicle. But to prove we are more than the brain and physical body, see what happens when we fall asleep.

It can't be proved of course, but don't you feel there is a spiritual element to your make up which seperates us from the apes? I accept that brain damage changes the way the brain works and indeed the 'mind' if we treat it as separate - I have seen personality change and have been struck by the affect it has. Nevertheless, I still believe that we have a spiritual aspect, even though as you rightly point out - how is this linked to the 'mind' if the brain is affected? Good point, I hope someone can shed some light on it...

stp it! wrte prprly so pple cn rd it!!!!