Mothers: Can't win
By 4monsters4me
@4monsters4me (2569)
United States
January 18, 2007 11:40pm CST
I have been reading different topics on here complaining about mothers and controlling their kids. Several were dealing with mothers that let their kids run loose in stores and such. The other deals with mothers using harnesses to secure their children.
It seems both are wrong for parents to do so what exactly are parents supposed to do. It is like we can't win. Either we are negligent because our kids run around or we are abusive for trying to do something about it.
I have 4 children ages 6, 5, 4 and 9 months. I keep hearing harnesses are so awful and abusive and just hold your kids' hands. Well how do I hold 3 hands and push a stroller at the same time?
When we go out my 3 older kids run around. I do my best to keep them by my side but at least a dozen times they are down the aisle at the store, sneaking under the clothes racks or running half a block ahead of me. It is almost impossible to go shopping with them since they don't all fit in the cart and I can't keep my eye on 3 kids and look at stuff. Outings of any kind are very stressful because I worry about one of them running off or being taken.
I personally have never used a harness on them but I also didn't go out much when they were toddlers. It was just too stressful. Try taking a 10 month old for a walk who won't sit in a stroller and wants to walk like his big sister who is 2 and chasing bugs in people's yards while being 7 months pregnant and barely able to walk. It isn't easy and a harness would have eased my nerves but because of the stigma around them I never used one.
This wasn't just about the harness debate. It seems like no matter what we do as parents we can't win. Our kids are out of control--we aren't disciplining them. But if we try to discipline them in a way that works (like spanking) we are abusing them. Parents are afraid to discipline their children because one wrong move and the kids are gone. If you work outside the home you are selfish. If you stay at home you are lazy. It is never ending. You have just one kid, again you are selfish and denying your child a sibling. Have more then 2 kids and you are selfish because you won't be able to give each child enough of your time.
Have kids close together and you are depriving them of their babyhood. Have them too far apart and you are going to be neglecting them.
Why are other people (especially those without children) so nosy when it comes to how we raise our kids? They just assume it some easy task to raise another person. Kids have minds of their owns and know how to use them from the time they are born.
I was reading online about why a mother uses a harness and it was her 2 year old running out of a store that convinced her. Until I read that I had forgotten (more like blocked out) the time one of my kids did that. I remember standing in line to pay and was putting my stuff on the belt and getting my wallet out. I looked up and my 2 1/2 year old was gone. I started to panic but figured she was just in the next aisle--nope. She was no where. I asked her brother and sister and they just shrugged. I called her name and she didn't answer. At that second every bad thought ran through my mind and I thought I would never see her again. I dropped everything I had, including my wallet and phone and ran out the door screaming her name, in tears. And there she was sitting outside because she went out the door and couldn't figure out how to get back in. I had never been so terrified in my life and understand why I blocked it out. It only takes a second for a tragedy to happen and I for one would rather be safe then sorry (in response to the harness use--which, like I said, we never used--instead we just stayed inside).
As for the other things I mentioned--none is better then the other and each family needs to find what works best for their situation and no one should have the right to question them on their intent because for the most part parents are going to do what they think is best. (for the record, I have kids close in age, more then 2 of them, we spank, I stay at home and we never used harnesses but I am not opposed to them).
6 people like this
22 responses
@HighPriestess (739)
• Melbourne, Florida
19 Jan 07
The funny thing is that the people who criticize the most don't even have children themselves. Well, it's not so funny, it is actually rather annoying. How can anyone who has no kids have any insight into the struggles of parenting?
3 people like this
@everybodylovesleah (244)
• United States
20 Jan 07
Amen! You think you know but you don't really know until you become a parent. Everyone thinks they are going to be the perfect parent with the perfect child. However, none of us are perfect and we have to adapt the best we know how. Sometimes that is the choice to have an unruly child or to say use a harness, or spank, or whatever your choice may be. Unfortunately there will always be someone there to let you know how much of a crap of a parent you are. Child rearing is rewarding, but not easy, and people should cut mothers just a little slack, especially since there is more than one way to produce a well adjusted, productive child.
1 person likes this
@crystal8577 (1466)
• United States
19 Jan 07
I have made a comment about the harness. I am not against them. My problem is when I see a parents using one & they yank on the kid every time the kid takes a step. The will treat the kid like it is a dog on a leash, that bothers me. Well I have 3 kids & 2 of them are close in age. I do feel I missed a bit of my oldest daughter's toddler years because of her younger sister. I do not regret any of it though. We do what we feel is best for our kids, at least I hope we do. I have spanked the older 2 & really don't think it is anyone's business. I can usually keep a pretty good handle on my kids & if someone wants to call me on it, then let them try.
2 people like this
@4monsters4me (2569)
• United States
20 Jan 07
I suppose it depends on why they are "yanking" on the tethers. When my kids were toddlers and I used their hoods as "leashes" I would tug on them all the time. Why? Because they thought it was fun. But someone else seeing me do that might have thought I was just being mean. It is all about perceptions. If people would just stop using the analogy of a dog on a leash there wouldn't be the problem. Since children obviously aren't dogs there should be no comparison. They are just children tethered by a strap to keep them safe. I don't see the problem. We strap them in the carseats, we strap them into strollers, we put them in cribs--why? for their own safety so why not tethers.
(This was not pointed at you, just trying to get my point across and your comment sparked an idea).
@4monsters4me (2569)
• United States
21 Jan 07
Well, obviously, that is uncalled for. I don't think most parents do that when they are using a harness, though. Unless the child is about to do something dangerous. I remember Brenna almost walked into the street when a car was coming and I grabbed whatever I could (which happened to be her hair) and yanked her back. She was a little upset but it was better then being flattened.
But I agree there is no reason to yank on a harness with a child in it. That doesn't really teach them anything.
@crystal8577 (1466)
• United States
21 Jan 07
My thoughts go beyond simple yanking though. I have seen parents pull on the leash until the child is thrown to the ground. It would be like someone going behind you & grabbing your hair & throwing you to the ground. Unless the child is in a dangerous situation then pulling them to the ground seems excessive to me.
1 person likes this
@wahmoftwo (1296)
• United States
19 Jan 07
I am absolutly 100% with you one this one. I actually had a lady confront me about using a harness on my 18 month old son in a large city. People should just mind their own business unless they want to offer help or stop abuse. I am sick of being judged and I have only two kids. Bless you for being able to go out with four!!!
2 people like this
@embattledsparkle (1072)
• United States
19 Jan 07
I use a harness but very rarely. I use it at places like the fair where there are thousands of people. I've had people give me looks, but I've also had parents ask me where I got the harness!
1 person likes this
@everybodylovesleah (244)
• United States
20 Jan 07
I actually think they are pretty cool. I was probably literally have a heart attack if my sweetie got away from me and I couldn't find her. It is MUCH better than having your child become the next news headline.
1 person likes this
@Kscott (634)
• United States
20 Jan 07
Very good discussion! I have 4 kids, 13,9,3, & 2 (and 36 if you count my husband which I do LOL!! he's the one who needs a harness the most by the way!!) I was given one of those harness' for my last baby shower, I have never used it, infact the kids have dug it out and use it to play "doggie" with. I didn't think that it would work as intended because it is velcro, and when they would pull from you...their gone...so the whole point of looking crazy with your kid on a leash is gone....I just dont like them, but can totally sympathize with someone for using them.....Kids get in a store and run like crazy sometimes....down the aisle...down 2 aisles....they forget their names when your calling them....think you look crazy when your calling them and they dont answer but heard you and then your panicked!! I stay at home with my children too, and occasionally they have been spanked, but thats only on a rare occasion because for the most part all I have to do is threaten to take away a tv, a stereo, a Nintendo, or Elmo and thats it....their angels again!!
When we go shopping with all the kids, which is not too often (we usually just take two, and leave two at home and my poor 13 year old is the one who stays home just about everytime, because he is a good sitter and responsible, but he doesn't mind, I think he likes to have the house to hisself at times) we normally get two carts, a toddler in each of them, and the other two walk and so far it's been ok...no major disasters...just a lot of extra groceries I didn't put in there when I get to the checkout. It is hard to decide what is good for each person, so I agree that each family has to decide what is best for them. I dont like when someone who doesn't have kids tries to tell me what I should do with them....frankly it's none of their business!! I do like good advice from other mothers such as yourself who are in the same situation. I have hollered at my kids with a stern voice before in public to either keep them in line or out of harms way and have received looks....I'm a real smart A$$ sometimes so I tend to open my mouth to those folks who choose to make a sly comment or mumble under their breath, because if I just didn't do anything they'd be still mumbling or rolling eyes or looking astonished...a no win situation....I personally think my children have the best of both worlds, a good set of parents who maybe love em tooooooooo much and spoil them, and the security of a close-nit family, and I have and will still for the rest of my life make sure my kids stay as thick as thieves with each other, because when I'm gone they will only have each other. And your right, as parents we have to do what is best in our eyes for our family and children...there is no right or wrong way to parent (unless your really abusing them), it's like a "learn as you go situation", just like Life.
@bonbon50 (659)
• United States
20 Jan 07
I agree that mothers take on an unnecessary brunt of critisism no matter what they do. Most families NEED two incomes just to get by comfortably. If a mother works outside the house, she's critisized for not 'raising' her children. If she's a stay-at-home mom, people wonder why she isn't going out to contribute to the family financial.
Some children are 'wild' and can dash off in a second and no parent can watch a child every second, let alone 2 or 3 children! I don't side with the parents that just let them run. For one, it leaves them prey to being snatched. Also, I worked in a restaurant where people felt it was alright to let their children run around as long as they kept an eye on them to make sure they didn't go out the door. When you're an adult carrying a tray of hot food, heavy plates, coffee, you aren't looking down to 'beware' of children. A child can get seriously burned, especially since a tray partial blocks a server's view.
I would much rather be critisized for having my child wear a harness than to have them hurt or worse, snatched! After all, it's just a phase that they eventually grow out of. I believe in spanking, as well. I child needs to know that the adult has the upper hand and trying to 'talk' to your child and reason with it as if it were an adult just isn't going to get through most the time. I was spanked, and I never considered it abuse in any way; discipline yes, abuse no.
Also, why are people so quick to critisize the mother, and never the father?
@4monsters4me (2569)
• United States
20 Jan 07
mz--
I can see that you truly don't mean to judge but when you say stuff like "I always kept an eye on my son" it is implying that the parents that chose to use them didn't want to keep an eye on their children. That is the same as passing judgement. It is so easy to say that when you only have one child to "keep an eye on".
Dealing with kids is never easy, no matter how many you have but when you add a couple the logistics are more difficult. I hate getting into that debate, but the truth is the parents with the most kids have it the hardest logistically because there is only one or two of them and many children. Everything is easier with just one, no matter how spirited a child is.
@mzbubblie (3839)
• United States
20 Jan 07
Being I am a single mother. It was not directed at parenting skills, maybe the fathers aren't around and its the mother who has to raise them. I raised my son the best way I knew how, which was my motherly instincts. I choosed NOT to have my son in a harness because he wasn't the kind of kid that just run off or make me panic. I ALWAYS had a eye on my child and knew exactly where he was at ALL times...Like I said previously, I was not tryng to criticized, I was simply trying to understand...
1 person likes this
@CC09241974 (69)
• United States
20 Jan 07
I completely agree with you! When I was growing up, My dad didn't care he would swat you if you were misbehaving in public. As we got older, grabbed our ear and pulled us then we would just shut our mouths and let him say his peace.
When I had my first son all was well until he was going on three years! He got used to going anywhere and everywhere since he was only a few days old. He also was very quiet and wanted to please us. People would comment on how good and quiet he always was. Little did they now he was Autistic with social issues and never talked because of it.
Then his sister came, he started acting out. Many times it was because he didn't want anyone to even look at her. The day I came home from the hospital was one of the cutest stories....It was my son's third birthday, so we brought home pizza and cake to celebrate, not wanting him to feel left out on his day! I wanted to get up and walk being stuck in a hopital bed after a c-section, short walks felt good. I had my momther come sit by me to hold her. OH MY!!! My sone went out of control and screamed and cried and said, "that is mommies baby! Put her back!" As much as it hurt to laugh, I was rolling. It was so cute yet, I had tears in my eyes from laughing!
Ok got off the subject, but haven't thought about this for awhile. When his sister was about 6 months he just started getting out of control, EVERYWHERE we went. There are times you just can't leave, you have to get wheat you went to the store for. Boy did I get dirty looks as I am going in to only get formula diapers and his favorite flavor oatmeal for breakfast, he screamed, ran, threw himself on the floor. Nothing worked for getting him under control. But I had to have all three of those items to make it through the rest of the evening and the next morning. What are we suppose to do? Go without diapers and formula and starve his baby sister? We can't spank, can't get them under control. being Autistic there isn't much you can do to control them when acting that way. 4Monsters4Me has hit is on the nose and it gets VERY frustrating that people tell us no matter how we raise our kids, we are always in the wrong!
Oh and by the way...I believe 95% of the time my children are very well behave, well rounded, wonderful kids..even get comments for strangers wehn we do go out now!
This will offend someone, I am sure.... but sometimes you people who complain...just need to mind your own business and look the other way!
CC
@CC09241974 (69)
• United States
21 Jan 07
He is a big boy! My almost 8 year old, who I generally have to give him the "look" that I am disappointed and he says sorry and it is done:) But he is only 50lbs. A skinny little thing! He sure takes after his dad and not me in that way! lol
I am happy it works for you!
CC
By the way, I rated you:)
1 person likes this
@MySpot (2600)
• United States
20 Jan 07
I think we win by doing what we think is best for our children.
For me, it is all about being selfless, accepting, showing unconditional love, discipline rather than abuse, practicing patience and understanding when dealing with them, learning what works best for my kids through trial and tribulation. I always validate their feelings.
I'm not against the use of a harness to keep your child out of harm's way. I chose to raise my kids myself, rather than work to make enough money to afford childcare ~ which seems like a given... for me anyway. I also understand and respect that everyone does not have the same advantage.
It's rude for someone to offer child-rearing advice when they have no experience or knowledge of the subject, especially if they weren't even asked. It's even more rude to pass judgement!
Parenting can definitely be a 'catch 22'! I think the rule of thumb will always be to act in the best interest of your child/ren.
@shakiz26 (63)
• New Zealand
20 Jan 07
All that you said 4monsters is soooooo true but hay i got 2 kids 2 and a half and 8mths but i will never again take my 2yr old out ive taken her out sooooo many times i refuse to take her out anymore because i get real ugly looks when my daughter starts crying because im not buying her a lollie not that i really care what others think well i never used to untill i got reported by CYPS and now i am very careful of what i do around others with my children but my daughters are well looked after in every way. Sometimes people think im too hard on my kids because i don't give them lollies or fizzy drinks all the time my kids drink water mostly have fizzies once in awhile and lollies when they are good, but to say im hard on my kids because i don't give them that stuff, this year is a new year for everyone but for me its going to be different to every year because ive gotten to the point where i just don't give a s*** what other people say on how i treat my kids and what i do with my kids because they are mine and i look after them.
I just wanted to say because i read ur post that it is so totally true, and i give credit to you for taking 4 kids out.
@gabs8513 (48686)
• United Kingdom
19 Jan 07
Yes there is a lot being said and I have to say I responded to some of them and I know it is hard today because of the Law (which I still think is wrong) but you are one of the Mothers who has it tough and who does care only she is limited by the Law
I think the People are getting at Parents that just do not care and let their Kids run wild, not at People like yourself who is trying her best but restricted so do not worry to much about what People say and you carry on the way you find best
You care and I can tell that or you would not have started this discussion and I admire you for coping I have 2 Kids they are Adults now but it was hard with them I was also a working Mum and some People used to condem me about that but I had to work and my Kids did not suffer through it I made sure of that
@linds_k (10)
• United States
20 Jan 07
I have not had to use a harness and probably never will. My kids are 5 and 20 months. Although they are extremely hyper at home, they are pretty good in stores and restaurants. I don't have an issue with harnesses, I have personally known kids who needed them.
@mzbubblie (3839)
• United States
20 Jan 07
Actually, I posted was the one who posted the topic about Kids being on leashes, and I specifically said, maybe their are reasons for why parent would choose a harness, help me understand...To each his own who wants to use it. Me personally I have 1 child and I never had to use that on my child. I held his hand, or put him in a stroller, furthermore, he wasn't the kind of kid that just ran out and hid from me. I didn't allow that when we were out and about. I never knocked what other parents do for their kids, if that works for you, by all means it works for me. I personally said I wanted to understand "WHY" a parent would want to use them. As to the responses, they are entitled to their opinions whether they are a parent or not. Whether they feel children or not dogs etc etc. YOU as a parent knows what's best for your child. Would I use a harness on my child, no...but in your case you have a few little ones running around, if the harnesses was best for you...hey, you did what you had to do...
1 person likes this
@skittles46 (388)
• United States
19 Jan 07
I agree it is hard to find a balance to certain issues (maybe all issues?). I also believe that the state has their hand in way too many families they should have left alone.
You can never make everyone happy though, there will always be somebody that disagrees with you about something you've chosen/not chosen to do especially with children. And to them, they're just as right as you feel you are.
As far as discipline goes, far too many parents have swung to the other side of the pendulum, and refuse to do anything to keep their children in line. That isn't any better than the strict military style dad who keeps them all in line with his belt (not that I'm saying thats the way to go either). Everything has a balance, but I think teaching our children to listen and obey every time is something that is important for their safety and for the safety of those around them. Now, I do NOT have or claim to have perfect children, and I don't have them as close together as yours (7,3,1), but I do know I have less trouble with mine out and about than most people I know who refuse to spank/restrain/physically punish because surely whats been done for centuries to keep children in line is no longer good enough (note the sarcasm).
I will end this book now, sorry to drag on, keep your head up, make your own decisions about your life and your children's lives and stick by them! By the way, kudos to you on having 4 wonderful blessings! Enjoy them while they are yours :)
@lizzyt2007 (1312)
• Craig, Alaska
22 Jan 07
I have one son and totally for the harnness idea for kids. He's 2 1/2 now and he wore a harnness for 1 1/2 and now he stays with me and listens to me. sometimes he sleeps and trys to run but most of the time I say to him come here in a stern but not yelling voice and he comes. I even try the count to 3 and he knows he's in trouble if he don't come to me before 3. I'm working on teaching him about time out.
@carlaabt (3504)
• United States
20 Jan 07
It is very unfair the way people criticize and judge. I only have one son and he is not quite a year old yet so the harness issue hasn't come up yet. But I'm sure it will soon. We are trying to get pregnant again right now and if we need to put something similar to a harness on Elliott to keep him close to us we will. I, too, would much rather have some one criticize me for that, than risk losing my son.
I have had a couple people ask me why I don't work more, though. One of my neighbors even told me that I don't work more because I'm lazy. Yet, when I was working 30 hours a week when my son was 5 weeks-8 months old other people would tell me I should be home with him. Even though my husband worked nights and was home with the baby while I was at work. People would tell me that I was selfish for "making" my husband take care of OUR child while I was at work because my husband needed to sleep then. I was only at work for 6 hours a day. My husband slept 4 hours in the morning before I left and usually about the first 2 I was gone while my son also napped, and then my husband could take a nap for about two more hours after I got home from work if he wanted to. How many moms get that much sleep?? He was able to get more sleep than I was at the time, but because I am the mom, I am expected to run on no sleep while he sleeps 8 hours. How fair is that?
When my husband went back to day shift we decided that it would be better if I stayed home with Elliott. We live on a military base and daycare at the actual child daycare program would have cost us over $1200 a month. I was only working 20-30 hours a week and pulling in around $1400-1500 a month after taxes. We decided it would NOT be worth it to go to work and let someone else raise our child for what would amount to a couple hundred dollars a month. But people still say I'm selfish for not contributing financially, even though, I do work 2 Saturdays a month at my old job still and make roughly $200-250 a month, so I am still contributing almost the same amount that I would be if I was working more!
Another thing that makes me mad is the people that comment about the fact that my husband helps around the house and does change a diaper once or twice a day. They say it isn't fair because he "works all day." So does that mean that as a stay at home mom, I can fix breakfast for my husband and son in the morning, play with and educate my son until Daddy comes home for lunch, fix everyone lunch, put Elliott down for a nap after lunch, clean the house/put away laundry etc. and then say I put in my 8 hours? No. Yet I do all those things everyday. And then I also fix supper, run errands if I need to, do a few things online to make a little extra money, work on soap and/ or candle orders I have, read stories, give baths and put the baby in bed. Oh and did I mention, feed the dogs and cat, let the dogs outside and back in several times a day, take everyone on walks when it's nice enough, and the list goes on.
Yet people say I'm selfish for asking my husband to do laundry and/or dishes and change a diaper or too a day. Go figure.
1 person likes this
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
20 Jan 07
You are so right, parents can't win now a days. I'm not a mother but I helped to raise my niece who is now 12 and I know how hard it was when she was younger. If a child acts up in a store and you don't do something about them you get people complaining and if you do something they complain. It's with everything. If you let them play outside, you are ignoring them; if you keep them inside you are sheltering them too much and so on. Society needs to keep their noses out and let parents be parents.
Now on the harness I personally don't like it but I figure that is each parents choice. We used something else though. It had a velcro strap that went around the child's wrist and one that went around the adult, connecting the two was a cord like a phone cord, it expanded to a good distance. It allowed her to walk and run around but not too far and this way both of us were connected. It allowed her to move around without getting too far from us. It was nice and easy to use. Since we had the same thing on our wrists I didn't feel like I was walking my child like I would an animal.
@Datingtheplayer (661)
• United States
20 Jan 07
i think most of the time people are critical of what they dont understand... those doing the criticising, are they paretns themselves? an important question i think needs to be asked,
1 person likes this
@khufara (73)
• Philippines
20 Jan 07
as a daughter, i dont thinking spanking is bad. i would welcome discipline. but one thing i dont really like is when in front of other people i get shouted or spanked by my parents. yeah, it really lowers my self-esteem. i dont want that to happen when ill have a daughter of my own.
1 person likes this
