When illogical supertitions and rational knowledge cohabit

I think it is odd how people seem to ignore the scientific evidence we have to prove that God doesn't exist. Why are they denying this? Are we so insecure that we have to just believe in anything so we don't have to take responsibility for our own lives. Thanks for another thought provoking discussion. You aren't the only one whose rating is suffering, through interesting discussions.

Thomas, I am a scientist and try to live my life by Christioan principles (ie not kill anyone, not steal from anyone etc). I believe that the bible was written 2000 years ago, in a way that the people living 2000 years ago could relate to and understand. The concept of the earth being 2.6 billion years old would be totally alien to them, and without modern methods, eg Carbon dating, seafloor spreading, Plate Techtonics then it is unlikely that scientists now would differ much from 2000 year old beliefs. (Incidentally did you know that there is a limit to carbon dating, once you go past a certain date(can't remember offhand what the date is) then Carbon dating is unreliable, 1 suggeston for this is that there could have been some kind of nuclear explosion which produced a large amount of Carbon14 which contaminated the atmosphere, there could also be a number of other reasons for this. It is difficult after 2000 years to know exactly what in the bible is true, and what has been changed over the years, some perhaps by mistranslation, (as the bible had to be copied by hand), or deliberately to fit in with Vatican ideals. However unless anyone was actually at the creation of the earth, then there will never be 100% proof that creationists are not right (even if they got the date wrong). I'm sure that I read somewhere that some Christian Scholors have used the date 4004 BC for the date of creation.

That makes no sense to me. You know what's really funny? My dad is a geologist, and he actually believes something frighteningly similar. He believes the Biblical story, but what he argues is that angle in the Bible of God's time and man's time running differently. So, in essence, what's he's saying is that sure, Mosasaurus probably did live 65 million years ago in human time, but that may have only been day 3 for God. That would make my head hurt. I don't frankly see how the two can exists side by side. We argue all the time about evolution, since he teaches biology in a school that forces creationist drivel down people's throats. And he incorporates his own theory about man's/god's time. We never come to anything but an impasse, as you can imagine. And I gave you a positive response, in protection of your star rating.

The world is full of these kind of thinkers. Religions do such a thorough job of brainwashing that one does not know that he does not know. This is a brilliant case of a totally confused mind. Is this guy a politician in his spare time? lol. Maybe he is really living in two worlds, and has a completely split personality. You make a great point that religions are based on so much superstition that it is impossible to accept it. For instance, the ground where a churh is built is accepted to be holy ground. That concept is all in the mind as no ground is more holier than any other. A++ rating.

I think that it is funny that realistically intelligence, and intellect. Really play no part in the theory of organized religion, or at least to me they don't. I have seen and heard many an intelligent person stand on their soap box and shout about creationism, and try to disprove the theory of evolution. However to try to compartmentalize these two very different things seems next to impossible, I mean how can you say that these dinosaurs were here 65 million years ago if the earth her self is only 10,000 years old? Being a person who appreciates science I would have to give much thought before proceeding. I mean really do the math it doesn't add up, I myself am not an overly religious person, I believe in something but i am not sure what that something is. The words of the bible are antiquated and anecdotle at best,therefore I can not reconcile myself to beleive the idea, that we came from one man and one woman. How anyone else can believe such things is truly beyond me.

One of the most basic functions of the human mind is the ability to compartmentalize. It allows people to hold completely contradictory beliefs and never feel any sense of conflict. Of course, the newly minted paleontologist is probably a total hypocrite. He had to know what he was doing, since he went directly to a teaching job as a fundamentalist college.

I have no problem with Jesus but I have found several falacies in Bible which dont hold on close introspection. However, to say that due to falacies in Bible and its inconguency with modern science, we can effectively deny existence of God is very untrue. You have assumed for example (without saying it) that when the church for Galieleo executed for saying Earth revolves round the Sun and not the other way round, that all spiritual paths agreed with the church. For example, in ancient vedic scriptures it is clearly mentioned that Earth moves round the Sun long before Galileo said so. I am all for scientific introspection and evaluation of scriptures. But it does seem to be that all people have with them to deny God's existence is to find falacies in Bible which has been (WITHOUT DOUBT) altered many many times to suit the times. Once again, let mme clarify that I have nothing against Jesus. However, to make wild claims like earth is 10000 old only when for example NASA has already found a man made bridge 17000 plus old around the park strait in Indian Srilankan Border, is so wild and foolish that it will drive people to athiesm. God bless.

Interesting..... I have only just found your topic yet I posted a topic myself today asking the very question of science versus religion and how can one be objective with both? It is an obvious struggle for most to separate their "inbred" beliefs from self determined realities as underlying guilt will cause a massive internal psychological conflict. It certainly doesn't hurt to play both sides of the fence when covering any topic in general but were his ultimate findings expressed?? If not, it appears that the guilt factor I outlined above won out!

I believe in science and I believe in God. I believe that we have evolved (how else do you explain the appendicts?) and that creatures are still evolving as we sit here typing away on myLot. I choose to believe that all the science (I love biology and the like)derives from God. That yes, you can believe the world existed the way id did/does and be a Christian. They are not exclusive.

People will believe what they want to believe. It's hard to change belief systems that are drilled into people usually at a young age, such as religion is. In your friend's case, "denial ain't just a river in Eygpt." ;) The best advice I ever heard came, ironically enough, from a TV show that was on in the mid-60s, when I was around 6 years old. I can't remember the name of the show, but Jimmy Stewart played a teacher or a college professor. He told his students, "I don't want you to answer my questions as much as I want you to question my answers." From the moment I heard it, that line stuck with me. I realized that people should question everything their parents, teachers, priests/ministers and the whole of society tells them. Put what you're told and taught up against real life. Does it hold water? Or are there little holes in there? Or maybe big, gaping holes, like those that fill the Bible. ;) I have the feeling your friend might have attempted in his life to question somethings, but not everything he was told. ;) (BTW, I can't believe that you, of all people on mylot, are only rated a 5. Sheese! More proof that mylot's rating algorithm is flawed.) :P Algorithm = what Al Gore uses when he dances. ;) Sorry, I couldn't resist. :P

you love debates don't you lol? i believe that when alot of the biblical recordings were being written down they were long before the julian calendar or what we call roman calendar existed and in those days defining time was different to how we define time today.. so although today's archeological findings maybe correct in terms of time..the spiritual aspect of How everything came into being is not disproven by this ..so yes one can still hold onto his spiritual beliefs..funnily enough islam is one religion that condones scientific research that is why so many mathematicians and scientist evolved out of early islam.. there were alchemists and scientists and mathematicians..like in medieval times in europe.. love your topics Thomas.i laways rate a plus lol happy valentines..hehe

I don't see why you would expect your star rating to go down with this discussion. It is quite pertinent. I have often wondered about that as well. How some people can conciliate things that often contradict themselves in such way. That is not a matter of compartmenting, or pair up similar ideas.. I mean you either believe in one thing or the other there is not bridge between then. I just have trouble understanding how it works - but it obviously works for this person.

Well, I'm not a scientist. Nor am I a christian. So remember that as you read my opinions. lol I find that religion and science should work hand in hand, together. And I think it's perfectly possible for that to be. For example, when I was in High School I had a Physics/Chemistry teacher who was devoutly christian. Every so often he would make side comments that tied his religion into the class (not to convince us, but more as interesting tidbits). One example he used was the periodic table. After the table had been reformed numerous times, we've come across an organization of the table that makes complete sense. And, there were once gaps in the table that have since been filled. As if we found the layout for all elements on our planet. As the teacher said "It's as if someone planned it all out before hand." I think if you are truly religious, you wont merely believe in your religion, ignoring facts. But instead learn to merge the two together. That's what any rational, intelligent person should do. I was raised Mormon, so I'm not unaware of the christian religion or anything. In the Church, we have some extra scholastic works. For example, when God created the world, he didn't make it in literally 6 of our days. Instead, 6 of his days. Mormons have the book of mormon, which many other christian groups dislike, but in this book theres a section that explains how God keeps time. A star called Kolob is 'nearest to the throne of god' and one cycle of this star around where God is, is a day for him. But it 1000 years for us. Or some number like that. Essentially that if god created the earth in 6 days, it was actually 6000 years, or so. But that concept that perhaps a God has a timeset in a different way, could be twisted into accepting that god created earth. Even if we find fossils older than what we thought. Then, if you are a believer, you try to decode the bible to have it fit with the facts. The same way we had to re-think the periodic table, to have it fit the elements we found. I don't think it's wise to have two mindsets, and accept them on their own terms as fact. That's just sillyness. They should be compatible with each other.

well i think that this is a relly nice discussion u have started here. i for one belive more in science . i mean i think that there might be a greater power out there but it can be called nature and evolution as well as some migt call it god for whatever reason they want to. as far as beliving in the bible as well as in scientific discoveries... well i don't belive that the hystory as depicted in the genesis is only 10000 years old. and man for instance was not created in a day. but if you start analyzing the facts the bible might be refering to a day as natural hystory refers to an era of evolution. but it used the concept of day, as a time period, to describe and understate god's power and might as to religious beliefes.

This is the reason I do not believe in religion, God created man, man created religion. Religion is not a creation of God. My theory of how life was created is this: God has always been, God does not actually have a name, humans gave God name because they needed to identify what had created everything, God is not male or female, but a life force or pure energy, God used the "Big Bang" to create the Universe, God saw some planets and said "let's put life on some of these planets" in it's own settle language, God did it through evolution. To quote Professor Xavier of the X-Men,"Mutation, it is the key to our evolution, it is what enabled us to evolve from a single celled organism into the dominant species of the planet. This process is slow and normally taking thousands and thousands of years, but every few milennia evolution leaps forward." In simplification, we all came from a cell created in the planet, that was created by God. We did not come out of nowhere, we came into being through a process. Everything goes through a process. We all start out as cells or genes from our parents, we spend nine month changing and growing in the womb and then we are born, but the truth is, we were born the minute we were conceived because we had that life force that told us to grow.

Well, isn't it a perfect example of the Renaissance secularization? It's alost like the famous Italian Renaissance artists who would be creating some chef-d-oeuvres depicting God, and at night would be drinking and other sins.

Another intelligent post that I just have to respond to. I had a teacher of Geology that told our class the first day that basically the theories that he would present in class were the most current and up to date geological theories that he could offer us. He followed this statement by saying that if there was anyone in the class that was religious and believed in creationism that they might not want to be in his class. He told us that he would not allow religion to interfer with the SCIENCE that we were suppose to be learning in class and that he would have no arguments to this affect. Needless to say two people dropped the class that day, it is strange to see the beliefs that can keep us from even seeing the other side of the coin.