Natural wonders as evidence of a specific Creator?
By Leca
@lecanis (16647)
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
March 10, 2007 11:29am CST
I can see the argument that natural wonders point to a creator in general. I'm not saying I agree, but I can see why one would want to argue that every beautiful thing in the this world could not have come into being without someone planning and creating it.
What I don't understand is how anyone could even attempt to argue that any natural wonder could point to one specific creator. There are literally hundreds of creation stories: in ancient times you could travel 10 miles and find people who believed a different one. If a flower is beautiful, and shows some kind of design by some kind of supernatural being, what proves it to be one over another? Why God and not Allah? Why Allah and not the Great Spirit? Why the Great Spirit and not "The Lady of the Skirt of Snakes"? And so on, and so forth?
Why do people try to "prove" things that are obviously matters of personal faith by arguing that "the nature of the thing is such that only MY god could have done it"?
9 people like this
13 responses
@omnithought (199)
• United States
10 Mar 07
Considering how some of the most popular religions have this god that is extremely insecure and would punish its followers for even entertaining the idea that another being or cause could be the creator, I can see how people would do this. WHY they accept such irrational beliefs is an interesting question, as any idea one comes up with, whether it's god, or aliens, or whatever has exactly the same amount of evidence.
I wish more people would simply be honest and say "We don't know. We can't know right now, and to say we do know would be a lie." Nothing is more aggravating than those who claim to have truth but have zero evidence to support it with. Of course, one could say "This is what I believe," and that's fine. But saying "This is how it is and you are wrong if you believe otherwise" is nothing short of insanity.
4 people like this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
10 Mar 07
I know something about this, and to respect is not to fear, but fear is to respect and have wisdom.
I'm going to push on, even though I fear my responses here aren't quite appropriate, I could have responded differently, I wanted to share individually while I have my own thoughts for general discussion.
Looking around, am I the center?
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
10 Mar 07
Have I told you lately how wonderful you are? As always a thoughtful and intelligent response. Thank you.
You make a good point about popular religions. I do often wonder how certain religions become more popular than others, and it makes me a firm believer in the power of fear.
'But saying "This is how it is and you are wrong if you believe otherwise" is nothing short of insanity.' I love the way you put this.
1 person likes this
@kavi112 (232)
• India
10 Mar 07
all things in the nature are beautiful in their own way..you can say if you want there is some power n stuff...but i believe mother nature is so beautiful that all its creations are also great... its all science..the way it happens... no power as such... a flower looks beautiful because u like it...u like the way the petals hang around their bud...
3 people like this
@Xeedar (255)
• Italy
10 Mar 07
The question is that every little humen group in the past has tried to give explanations for things they couldn't explain. The easiest way to explian something was one or more supernatural creators, so they started adoring the Mother Goddess, and every little group in the time has modified that beliefs giving different names, different genders, different forms.
Religion has born just to explain the unexplainable.
Now we have science, we have logic, we have proofs.
I can see no signature behind a flower with written on "March 2007, God". If you find it, could you send me a photo?
2 people like this
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
10 Mar 07
I do agree when one looks at such wonders many think of what an astounding accompliment of our Creator. However just because we believe this was something created by a higher power it does not give evidence as to which higher power it is. Personally I don't think it matters what name we call them by they are all the same just how we decide to perceive them but for some the name is very important and they will argue and fight in legnth on it. To me this is foolish. There is no way to prove which God created what. When I look at Mammoth Cave yes I see something at work there that is greater then myself but to try and state which god it was would be a bit of a stretch. I wasn't there when it was created, I wasn't privy to the inner workings of the gods to know which one might have performed this particular creation. The problem comes in that so many feel that their creator is the only creator, that to believe other wise is wrong if not cause for being condemned. Personally I think it's a shame that they have to be that closed minded. That they cannot accept others as they are and for what they believe in. That they cannot allow others to follow their own path just as they would like to.
It is impossible to prove faith. By it's very difinition it defies being proved. Faith: A Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. So to try and prove that one is the true creator is not possible. They don't want to hear but it's true. All we can do is go by what we believe and to allow others the right to believe as they want without us trying to convert them.
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
10 Mar 07
Thank you for a very beautiful response!
Providing the definition of faith is very useful here. If you have faith in something, it is by nature unprovable. If you have faith in one thing, and someone else has faith in something else, they are both unprovable. So to argue that one of you is right and the other wrong is pointless.
Your mention of Mammoth Cave made me so excited! I used to spend so much time there as a child, and it is such a beautiful place.
3 people like this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
10 Mar 07
See above about the Grand Canyon. Many forces working together.
2 people like this
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
11 Mar 07
I haven't been there since I was very little, we were on vacation and went from Michigan to Florida and stopped there on the way down. It was fantastic. I'd love to go again. The fact that it stuck with me for 30 years should say something don't you think? It's just so incredible. Amazing what can happen around us isn't it?
2 people like this
@domesticengineer (576)
• Philippines
11 Mar 07
Believing in God and different gods for that matter is a great point of argument. The thing is if we believe in one Almighty God, we just have to stick to that belief and do good things. Because as long as we're doing good things and not harming anybody we're giving good justification to what we believe in.
@xenatessmocker (339)
• United States
11 Mar 07
I think natural selection and plate tectonics provide a logical explanation. Don't get wrong, I do believe in some type of higher power but no necessarily a creator. I choose not to mix science and religion in my heaf. It does not compute.
2 people like this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
10 Mar 07
Being surrounded by all of you, I see the beauty around me.
Questions about how to find the truth, and where that truth can be found lead me to think about he Stargazer Lilly, how was that flower created?
I was listening to Radio times and a show was done on this particular subject. I should look up the show from the archives and provide a link.
What I learned was that a man crossed different flowers to come up with the final product what we see today, the creator was a man. He didn't earn much from his creation because he couldn't access the market and profit from his love. That broke my heart when I heard about his struggle to profit from his hobby turned business venture and couldn't get the business off of the ground. It is a story I am all too well familiar with. I know what it is like to try and do something doing all the right things and not being able to get the system to work. The danger is that we become slaves to the system. Is it better to stop now or just take one more step, I might find tha elusive pot of gold at the end of the rainbow if I just persevere. The question who and what is the force that drives us on for one more minute one more day?
Just another hour, and I'll be on my way...
Maybe another year?
Hope is another force, hanging in to bring people together and understand with new eyes and ears...
GOD's grace a blessing.
We live,
Love,
me
1 person likes this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
10 Mar 07
I see your tongue in cheek,,, Very visual of you... Heheheheee...
;)
1 person likes this
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
11 Mar 07
We are surrounded by natural beauty. When I see the beauty of a sunset I understand that this beauty is a result of the angle of the sun and the refraction of light through dust and water particles in the air. This understanding takes nothing from the beauty of the sunset. I can perceive beauty based on natural phonomena and do not need a supernatural being to explain it. Why complicate things when a simple an understandable explanation exists?
1 person likes this
@countdown21 (111)
• United States
11 Mar 07
Hi,
You are right, we should't argue but; you are missing the real issue. There is an elephant in the room; ETERNITY. If your "personal faith" is in something that doesn't agree with God, nature or not; you are going to spend forever and ever separated from God....so what we need "prove" is which God is the real one? Then we will know the author of nature.
1 Cor. 8:6
John 1:1-17
countdown21.com
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
11 Mar 07
If your personal faith is in something other than my Gods, will you not spend eternity seperate from them?
Why would I want to spend eternity with YOUR God? Not that there aren't those among his followers that I love and respect, but there are Gods that I worship, and an eternity with your God doesn't interest me.
We don't need to prove which God is the real one. We can't prove it. However, to say that the eternity your God offers is better than the one my Gods offer is just silly. I haven't really said much at all here about what I believe in, though you might have heard what religion I am from other discussions. What if I prefer the afterlife my Gods offer to the one your God does?
Moreover, when people ask me if I am afraid of what will happen to me when I die, I ask the question right back at them. Are they afraid of what will happen to them if the God they worship isn't real? In most cases the answer is "No, because I know my God is real." *shrugs* I could say the exact same thing. I am not afraid of eternity, because I do have faith, and I know that the Gods I worship have something nice waiting for me, just as you know that your God does for you. Your faith doesn't automatically trump mine in some way just because you have a book to quote from.
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
16 Mar 07
*shrugs* folks are weird..
Makes me glad that my beliefs don't necessarily clash in my views, with any other religion..just differ slightly.
Humanity's pride I guess. Always wanting to believe what they consider THE truth, believe in the BEST diety or deities. It's rather silly..and if they're reaching for enlightenment how the heck do they think they're going to manage it whilst trying to prove they're better than anyone else?
Don't get me wrong, I'm one ofthose folks who has to prove a point where it comes to beliefs, but I won't force them down my throat..I'm mostly just trying to back up what I believe..prove it myself. If more folks research and back up their beliefs with actual facts -- kudos, you know? I wish more'd do it..but if they're just gonna be strutting around claiming they know THE truth not A part of the greater truth(s), that they're better than everyone else..psft, let them..
"Men often stumble onto the truth, but most get up, dust themselves off, and carry on their way as if nothing happened."
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
16 Mar 07
Note, monster typos in the above post..
but the main one..
"I won't force them down people's throats"
Not 'my throat'
1 person likes this