I think trust and honesty are overrated. What do you think?

Quoting you, "I can spend an hour with the most HONEST person and the world and come away feeling awful because they are downright mean." You are so right. This has happened to me as I know a person that is, according to her very honest, but she is mean and her honesty hurts people.

I guess we can't hang out. I am very honest. I can be mean but I don't set out to tell the complete truth so I can hurt someone's feelings.I do describe products that I have by saying it was around 14.95,leaving the taxes out of it.If a friend liked what she was wearing and I didn't and she asked me if I liked it, I would tell her I don't but if she likes it that's what matters.I guess I must be rare, I can tell the truth And be polite at the same time. When it comes to lying to me. The first time I catch you lying to me , I assume everything that you tell afterward is a lie.

I guess for me its not as simple as how you are putting it..I DEMAND honesty in the ppl in my life..BUT I also DEMAND respect which in combination with honesty means I have no problem when someone tells me the truth just be nice about it even if its something I may not agree with or like.... I'm a VERY BRUTALLY HONEST person with my loved ones and to some that may sound like I'm being "mean" but thats not the case at all.....I'm kind and compassionate about it and they all appreciate me for it... You can be brutally honest with a person but NOT be cruel or mean about it.. As for trust..well I'll NEVER fully trust ANYONE....I've seen and done too much in life to be able to put my full trust in a person..Thats just how i am...Luckily though I'm a great judge of character and I can tell after meeting a person for an hour or less whether or not I can or should trust them at all..

You summed it all up beautifully and the first thing that I did was to give a + to your discussion. I could well identify myself with what you said and one important thing that I have learned is that when you know that a close person who normally has no pretences with you is slightly hazy about details [say rounding off to the nearest rupee] it really does not matter. It used to get on my nerves if i heard people exagerrating or saying an outright lie. I still have the habit of accurately giving details but not everyone is like that and there is no need for me to sit on judgement-this is the lesson I have learnt with increase years of maturity.UNLESS SOMETHING AFFECTS US DIRECTLY OR HAS A NEGATIVE IMPACT IN SOME WAY THESE THINGS SHOULD BE IGNORED-This is my lesson. I wholeheartedly agree with you that people do not have a right to be mean in the name of being honest. Regarding 'trust' I still feel that though we cannot keep delving into people's minds to decipher their innermost thoughts and responses , we do feel betrayed when their thoughts get translated into some action of betrayal. iT IS ACCORDING TO ME NOT AN ILLUSION.It is real.

You have hit on good points. You are right in so many ways. We are constantly disappointed in people from our family to those we trust to run our government and the world. I do think that if we allow ourselves to be upset or angry at this we will never be happy with anyone, including ourselves. I cant tell you how many times I have been upset at people, but I guess that is why we are hear. We need to learn not only tolerance and forgiveness but look into ourselves, too. I once heard a minister say that we must forgive people, not for them and the mistakes they made or how they hurt us,but so that we can move on with life. Good topic!

All humans lie at some points in their life. No one is spared. Children from the onset relatively start to lie. I agree that sometimes, our response to other people's lying to us has something to do with what they lie about. Only God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) but humans are all liars (Psalms 116:11). It's simply because we cannot put everything in control unlike Him and He is the God of truth. Like for example our promises, sometimes we inevitably lie if the time comes but we can't fulfill it for some reason due to our limitations and circumstances. But there are people who are still honest because of the fear of God. They know that He despises liars or dishonest people since God know what is in the heart of every person. In long and short of it, there are still honest people who sometimes, or minimally become regrettably dishonest.

To me I have always tried to be honset and truthful and taught me kids to do the same. BUt if something that would come up about some one I either tell it like it is or I leave the room!

Everyone lies,may be small or big,but they do lie..It depends on how we take the things..you also lie to escape from hard and tense situations..and there are born liars who lie for no reason...those people do hurt our feelings towards trust and honesty.

some people hate liers but they are liers as well, some people loves honest people but infact they are the kind of people that you cant trust. i know someone who hate liers but she cant see how a big lier she is. maybe sometimes we see bad attitudes but we cant see our own bad attitudes. yes i agree we cant read minds and sometimes we cant even see if they are lying to us or not. its really complicated if you are going to think about it. we cant pre-judge anybody because i am sure we dont want people to pre-judge us too.

Actually I believe in trust and honesty. I believe that if someone asks me something, I'm going to tell the truth. There's no point in lying about it b/c eventually the truth will come out. I realize that there are white lies and sometimes they are acceptable...but I have to trust that when I'm talking to someone that they aren't lying to me...otherwise what's the point in talking to them. As for trusting my spouse, I've been in a cheating relationship before and will never go through it again. I have to trust that Hubby is faithful. If he ever gives me a reason not to trust him (getting caught cheating) our marriage would be over. Our marriage and our relationship is built on love, trust, honesty and respect...if we don't have those cornerstones we don't have a marriage. **AT PEACE WITHIN** ~~STAND STRONG IN YOUR BELIEFS~~

I think you make a lot of good points miami! People do put too much emphasis on trust and honesty! I can usually tell when someone is trying to trick me, but I don't make that big a fuss over it, as long as it doesn't cost me anything! But if I see someone trying to take advantage of someone else, that is innocent, I have to butt in and call the bluff, so the victim will see the culprit for what he is trying to do! I just can't stand to see someone take advantage of an innocent person!

Hi Miamilady..hope all is well with you. We haven't chatted in ages. All is well with here. Anyway, I saw this discussion and was curious about what you were suggesting and why. The examples of 'feel good' experiences with a pathological liar may be fine for a short exposure...however I can honestly say I would not want to associatewith a pathological lier over the long haul. We have neighbors who lie, cheat and distort the truth to suit their own ends...and in this case I co not think trust and honesty are overrated. This family creates a high level of aggravation and are not well liked or accepted in our little town of under 1,000 residents. They are prime examples of the 'what goes around..comes around' principle of reciprocity. I also categorically disagree with your view about the lack of importance trust plays in any truly meaningful relationships of any kind. As a life coach I consistently see the damaging effects of lying, cheating and distorting the truth to 'loved' ones. The criteria for real emotional intimacy is...in openness there is trust...and in trust there is love. Nor do I think trust is an illusion. People who walk their talk consistently over time are, by the congruency between what they say and DO...trustworthy. Actions speak louder than words and sooner or later the mask will slip if people are willing to open their eyes and ears to LOOK and HEAR...what is and is not being said. Nor do we need to be mind readers. Who they are speaks so loudly that the truth of their deceptions cannot be missed. When it is 'missed' it is usually because WE do not want to accept it...for whatever the reason may be. Fear of change...clingy co-dependency...inability to establish safe emotional boundaries for ourselves. Necessity to be a mind reader...I don't think so. Now if a person is a true sociopath...well that puts things into a different arena. Sometimes even trained forensic psychiatrists feel out of their league with them. But in everyday scenarios I think if people really allow themselves most everyone can pick up on things if they ALLOW themselves to do so. If a person wants to surround themselves with a people who cannot or will not handle their own stuff and they are comfortable amidst lying, cheating, betraying scenarios and that makes them or you feel good...then by all means go for it. However, sooner or later superficiality looses its luster because it lacks substance...and people move on...and on...and one without ever really experiencing the power of truth, genuineness, integrity...honor. Those values cannot coexist with lies and deception. In both my personal and professional lives I know for sure that love cannot survive if it is just given scraps of oneself...it needs nurturing (and in my view honesty) to develop into trust to develop into something healthy and thriving. For anyone looking for real emotional intimacy trust and honesty are NOT overrated...but a prerequisite. Whenever there is strong emotion intimacy is right in the middle of it...and a fair fight between two emotionally mature individuals who are willing to be accountable for what they say and do can and usually does lead to a strengthening of the bond...not a weakening. Life can build character when we open ourselves to that possibility...and I am all for the right of free choice and non-judgment of others. However, there are consequences for every choice anyone makes...and lies will only beget more lies...and lies create unrest and distortions. If that is a cycle people prefer...well I wish them good luck because I can assure you they will need it. So you asked what I think...and that is my perspective. Raia

If everyone is being honest with themselves then they have to realize that noone is never honest 24/7 .. It's impossible there are the little white lies that we tell others wehter it be the kids and saying to them that can't go to grams because she sick but she's just really stressed and doesn't want to upset the kids or accidentally yell at them. But here's the thing we're all different no one is ever the same. we can't be .. So we percieve others how we want to percieve them. I have great friends are the perfect no. I know their pluses and minuses. I can live with that .. It's not that I'm friends with them becuase they are honest or lying all the time. I'm friends with them because i truly can accept them for what they really are. If we all learned to accept what is given to us there would be a lot less bull. I do agree with you on somethings. not on all. Have a nice day.

I tend to jump on discussions where people mention the word cynical. Dang my kids for needing a bed time story :) You couldn't spend an hour with me if I knew you. You would leave the conversation feeling awful if you were asking me what I thought about you and you had some qualities that you are less then proud of. I don't sugar coat. I tell my friends when they are too fat to be wearing a certain outfit. I kid my 5 year olds butt in Go Fish. I tell my grandmother she needs to take her ginsana because she is turning into a senile old bat. If someone takes offense to my honesty then they need to examine the part of their character I am being honest about. Just because I will stand up and say something about it where others might over look it or make excuses for it doesn't make me the bad girl, it's not my hang up that is being addressed. And right along with that is when someone has an opinion of me I take it. They can only form their opinion but the picture I have painted for them. If they see a flaw, it is because I am standing there with the paint brush.

I disagree...I don't think these qualities are overrrated. I think we are human and that we will stuff up from time to time...the degree with which we do this defines who we are but we all know the difference between right and wrong from an early age. Within a relationship, family or friend or otherwise so much is tolerated. For some people forgiveness comes more easily depending on the circumstances. Trust and honesty are only overrated if they are not important in any given situation. For me they are crucial to the success of a relationship....I can hang on for so long and overlook much but there always comes that line that gets crossed and so I shut that door.

I don't think they're over-rated, I just think they're special when they happen. I consider myself a realist, most of the time. Everybody lies. Maybe not all the time, maybe not even usually...but at some point, in everyone's life, they've lied. Maybe they didn't even know they lied, but they did. Trust, is an amazing thing, trust takes faith. And that too, is amazing. Blind truth or faith is pure idiocy, and often trouble from the get-go, but that doesn't make it any less amazing. I like a little trust in a relationship, I also like some honesty. I hope for honesty. And it's my policy to try not to lie myself. However, the least I ask for, is for people to not assume I'm as stupid as the average coconut, in that..that I won't catch them in their lies. 'Cause I will. And the education can vouch for my intelligence. So, to lie without expecting me to figure it out, that is INSULTING to me. It's something I don't forgive easily. I can forgive the lying, but thinking of me as that stupid..I cannot. As for the age old question; "What is the truth"...truth is normally subjective, at least in every day life. I used to be an impeccable liar, so I like to think I know what the truth is...I can tell only a piece of the truth, without lying. I can, as you said, be focused on only part of the details without lying. And no, most of us cannot read minds...but some of us can read "tells", can know someone well enough to tell, or otherwise sense a lie...and more yet know how to figure it out. I don't despise liars, in fact, I enjoy speaking with them...because the experience is educating. I also do not hate lies. The world runs on lies and greed more than half the time anyway...and I've accepted this fact. I'll combat the greed and try to show the truth as much as possible...but I won't get my panties in bunch over how the world and its people are. I appreciate honesty. My ego can take it. My intelligence can also take liars. But my heart, my heart despises anyone who would assume things which are not true, of me.

to me trust and honesty are not over rated and I am sure every word you said was true, but if we do not have trust in our relationships what else is there? Do I trust every thing I read, see, or hear not a chance, I believe I am a fairly good judge of a person, and I can not deal with people who are deceitful and dishonest because it is for their benefit only. I feel that when people lie to me they believe I am a stupid person and am going to fall for their lies, that I am a quiet gentle person and will not call them on their lies, I have shown many that I am not stupid nor intimidated by people. There are ways to tell the truth and inform people with information that they need to know and it is simple, you do it with out attacking a person or their beliefs, but state your beliefs and let them accept or reject you opinion, just like I am doing now. I do not agree with what you have said and possibly believe, but I will stand by your side and defend your right to say and believe what you do excellent discussion

It would depend on the relationship between the person and how close you are to them. If you are close, then i would say that trust and honesty are very important. If not then, it does tend to be overrated and you can never know whether to trust them or your instincts.

This is a very deep well thought out discussion on your part. I haven't seen one like this in awhile. Sure did make me stop and think about it as I was reading it! As you said, food for thought. I will be thinking about this for awhile!

Hello Miamilady, Let me say that I disagree with you that truth and honesty are overated. It is important to ONESELF to be trustworthy in ones own eyes. Your reflection of self worth can be perceived by another. If you are so brutally honest in your words to hurt another, then you are negating the value of honesty. The white lie is justified by "the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life." The only acceptable brutal honesty/truth is to oneself. You cannot lie to yourself as to your action or motives. You should not place a personal judgement on another if they lie or steal. (Not talking social-criminal events here) Judgement can only placed on oneself without harm occurring. You are responsible for your own life.