Would you support a bill to block divorce ?
By ronnyb
@ronnyb (6113)
Jamaica
February 3, 2009 11:05am CST
What are the pros and cons of supporting such a move ? Do you think persons would try harder to make their marriages work if they knew that there was no way out and wasn’t this the original idea behind being married ,to stay together forever ? I mean support for this argument comes from the fact that today many persons view marriages as a light arrangement that can be breached with even the lightest differences ,today celebrities are in and out of marriages in a months ,sometimes even weeks and I think that this is undermining the sanctity of marriages .
On the flip side of that though are those who make the argument that some persons after a while some find it difficult and even impossible to coexist in the same space. However would they be forced to rekindle the initial fire that they had if they knew they couldn’t get out of the marriage ?
I think it could work but then again I am not married and so maybe I am not qualified .Another reason why I am convinced it could work is that in many places like India there are many arranged marriages and they seem to be doing well (don’t have any evidence ,just my view ,so correct me if I am wrong ) .This has led me to belief that if tradition and family can make persons stick to such a commitment then law could do the same in the our society.
What are your views on this issue would you support it and if possible give your personal experience .
15 people like this
40 responses
@tracie1758 (507)
• United States
3 Feb 09
I think divorce sometimes is just something that has to happen. My parents are divorced and our lives are so much better ever since they split up. They are more suited as friends than anything more than that. There was no abuse or anything, but in a case where there is I think divorce needs to happen as fast as possible. Sometimes marriage just doesn't work out and the people involved shouldn't be punished by staying together.
3 people like this
@Barb42 (4214)
• United States
3 Feb 09
I think this would be a stupid move on the government to try and stop divorces. Why should the government have a bill for this? There are people who just aren't meant for one another and didn't find it out until after marriage. There are people who are abusive to their partners. Would you want them to stay together and be abused? I don't like divorce, either, but it is with us. Just because arranged marriages seem to stay together does not make it a good marriage. I don't believe in anyone picking out the mate of another. I believe, for there to be a happy marriage, there has to be love. And there is no love in the arranged marriage. They don't know anything about each other and it's a blind marriage. Forcing someone against their will to do something is not the way to go, period. I would hate to know that my daughter would have been forced to stay with a man she lived with that had become somewhat abusive (in private) and was having an affair right in her face! We were all glad to see him go, even his kids don't have anything for him now that they are grown.
2 people like this
@Barb42 (4214)
• United States
4 Feb 09
Well, it's not always good for the family to stay together because of children, either. My daughter was married two times, both ending with the spouse committing adultery and leaving. She had 2 children by both. The second one just decided he didn't want to be married, he still 'loved her' (RIGHT!), but he wanted out. She made him tell the kids, not leave it to her which he was going to do. He wanted to look good to the kids, like it's Mom's fault. Well, his youngest was 4 at the time, and he didn't speak to him for 6 months! The boys are now 13 and 15 and they could care less whether they go see him or not. And he's brought it on himself. He's been good to pay her child support and much more than she'd have gotten through court, but that doesn't suffice for a father at home.But the kids are 20, 19, 15 & 13 and have made it fine without them. I know it would have been better to have the latter one there, but he wanted them all in the bed by the time he got home at night, anyway. So they did fine without him. I wish, for my daughter's sake, he would have done right. She didn't deserve how she's been treated. And now, she may live the rest of her life by herself when the kids are gone.
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6113)
• Jamaica
4 Feb 09
Ok I let me concede I do support divorces on two ground abuse and infidelity and I believe that you may be able to work through the latter .Maybe arranged marriages arent the most loving relationship and then again maybe the persons eventually get to love each other ,yet they stay together.The point I am really trying to make is that if persons forced together can stay together why can persons who choose thier partners try to do same.Dont get me wrong I dont support arranged marriages ,I am just using it to build a contrast.Nor am I even saying that persons should stay together if they are unhappy all I am saying that many times many person opt for the easy way out because they know thay can.And when you consider the implications on the children ,I think thi swould be another reason to consider staying in a marriage
1 person likes this
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
3 Feb 09
No I would not support such a bill. IMO all it would do would be to increase the murder rate or some other type of crime to get rid of the offending spouse.
1 person likes this
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
4 Feb 09
I was thinking along the same lines when I was writing my response.. 2 lives saved!
@CRSunrise (2981)
• United States
4 Feb 09
I don't know that I believe in the idea of divorce. Marriage should be one of those things that will be forever. If there are problems in your marriage, divorce should not be your "Get Out Of Jail Free" card. You really need to work them out.
However, if there are serious problems in your marriage, such as abuse of some kind, then you should have that out...for your safety as well as any kids you may have. Living with abuse is not a thing you should have to do just because you're married. It's not right.
It's a double-edge sword if a bill is passed making it illegal to divorce. Although, it'd make people think twice about marriage before they do it.
@CRSunrise (2981)
• United States
4 Feb 09
I never said that divorce was such a thing. I was just saying that some people think of it as one.
@maidangela7349 (1191)
•
4 Feb 09
Of course you can't stop divorces there will always be couples who for one reason or another need to split up. I note you comment about arranged marriages. I do know something about arranged marriages in the Indian commuity and why they last more that our sort of marriage is because if the wife walks out not only will her husband's family have nothing more to do with nor will her own family so the pressure to stay is very strong even if the marriage is not working. I am not sure what happens if a husband walks out as the only case I have knowledge of where the husband was not satisfied he set light to the house and killed his wife and 4 daughters encouraged by his parents
2 people like this
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
5 Feb 09
That is always the case in a patriarchal society. He has to kill her so he can keep all the money to himself. Was he punished for his crime?
Yes and what happens to the couple who are incompatible. To a wife who the husband discards because he wants someone younger or prettier. If he cannot remarry he may well kill his wife or have her killed so he is free or he may just choose to live with the girl.
People will always need divorce. If it became illegal to divorce who would get married? I would rather live with someone as that way I do not lose my birth name. My mother hated losing her identity when she became nothing more than the wife of her husband.
@suzzy3 (8341)
•
4 Feb 09
Some people do not realise that marraige should be for life and not till one of them gets bored.I think on the whole most people get married and expect to stay together for life and are heartbroken if it goes wrong.I don't know what the answer is.The amount of men who leave their wives during pregnancy or when the kids are little is something I can never understand.I think some men do not realise having kids means they get pushed to the end of the queue for their wives affection and get jealous of the baby and use that as a weak excuse for having an affair.I know females are not blameless and not necessarily blameing everything on the man.There have always been divorces and it is not really a new thing but it does seem to happen more than it used to.In the old days woman stayed at home and raised the kids while the man went out to work to earn money,each had their own roll in life and knew where they stood.These days woman are more educated and could earn more than the man,they are financially independent.So the hunter gatherer instinct for the man is undermined.Women being better educated can hold their own in the world ,contreception freely available,they don't have to get married to survive in the world ,whereas in the old days the only way a woman could live was to get married and get a man to look after,men always had affairs and messed the wives around if they had a mind, but woman had to put up with it or starve,no benefits in those days,I think that has got a lot to do with it.Woman were in their place and now they are where they choose to be.Men are lost as to their role in life ,disaster how you would deal with that I would not like to say.It is just a crying shame for the kids in these relationships if there is violence for some sort of abuse perpetrated by either partner ,I cannot see why a few years of your life is something so hard to give up for your kids,selfish is one word I would use but thats just what I think.perhaps arranged marriages with consent of course is the best way to go,after all your friends and family know you better than you do sometimes I am not say forced marriage that is wrong.
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6113)
• Jamaica
4 Feb 09
Very good point Suzzy .Many persons fail to see marriage as a permanent situation and opt out at the first sign of trouble.They fail to realise too that when they have kids that is another consideration that they have to make.One the kids like you say will have to share the woman's affection and two any action they make will affect the children as well.
In addition like you say the reversal of roles and the realisation of wome's ability has also helped to create strain in marriages because no lonegr are women willing to saty home and be the home maker .Women are now gatherers and as such will not stnad by and suffer the stress of mens infidelity .
great answer
1 person likes this
@tammytwo (4298)
• United States
3 Feb 09
Sometimes divorce cannot be avoided. Some couples just should not be together. Of course I guess if more thought had been put into the idea before they were married they wouldn't have to deal with divorce. However I do believe people change throughout their lives. My husband and I got together when we were just teens and both of us have done a great deal of changing over the years. It hasn't been easy to maintain the marriage. However I was one that decided when I got married I wanted it to be forever or at least until the kids were grown. We have been through a lot but we have fought hard to keep our marriage going. And now we seem to be closer than ever because of it, even as we have our first child graduating from high school this May.
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6113)
• Jamaica
6 Feb 09
Now isnt that a beautiful story it show what can be avhieved if two peopl decide to stay together come what may .Imagine if you had thrown this away earlier ,see what you have missed if you had given up earlier and you had ample reasns to quit ,I mean you were teenagers.Yet you stuck it out ,that is exactly what I am saying that you can grow into love sometimes if the commitment is there and the lack of divorce may provide that commitment to stay together
@Loverbear (4918)
• United States
4 Feb 09
I couldn't in all good consciousness support such a bill. When a person is stuck in an impossible relationship that is filled with abuse, not only emotional but also physical, there HAS to be a way to escape the horrors. There are too many people who remain in these kinds of relationships that result in the final act of abuse, murder.
Also, forcing people to remain in a relationship that is no longer viable is inhumane. Let's face it any thinking individual would resent being forced to remain in a situation that is unpleasant. I have found that it is impossible to force the initial fire the caused the union in the first place. The fire that it would cause would be more hateful than it was before.
If you look at countries like India, there is a different social system than the United States. We, in the United States as well as other countries such as Canada, England etc, have developed a free style of thinking where we answer only to ourselves more or less. We worry about our family's honor to a point, but not to the point of accepting an arranged marriage. We allow our women the opportunities of education, careers, travel etc. While in other countries women are still fighting for these rights.
As for our celebrities being in and out of marriages, they are extremely visible people and it seems like if they fart at the wrong time it hits the wire service. It isn't exactally the best way to have a marriage. There are exceptions to the rule, having well known celebrities that have wonderful marriages, but these people are recluses and work hard to keep their families out of the spotlight.
While your idea has merit, since there are many people who give up on their marriages too easily, there are others that need the escape that can only be obtained through a divorce. In fact my best friend is one of those people that needs that escape...her husband is emotionally abusive and I hate to tell you the number of times that I have consoled her over the telephone after one of those occurrences. Even marriage counseling wouldn't help their situation. The thought is good; but when you're in an intolerable situation, there is only one way to save yourself, that's getting a divorce.
@ronnyb (6113)
• Jamaica
4 Feb 09
I conced that marriages should be allowed on the grounds of abuse .I do not support abuse .however I believe that it is this free thinking and that we are answerable only to ourselves that has led to the high rate of divorce and disfunctional families.The system in India may be seen as backward but it has worked in terms of preserving the institution of marriage.Dont get me wrong I do not support forced marriages but I think if those can work so should consentual marriages .I think people must be accountable for thier actions and stick to thier commitment unless it is on the grounds of infidelity and abuse
@dloveli (4366)
• United States
4 Feb 09
I do think people dont try hard enough sometimes. There are also people who try too much. I think that it would be absolutely unacceptable to interfere in someones personal problems. Put yourself in that position. If I was living in a situation that could may be miserable, hurtful or possibly dangerous it would be playing with my safety if my divorce could be blocked. What if it became violent? whose fault would it be? I can bet you the government would not take any type of responsibility. dl
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6113)
• Jamaica
4 Feb 09
Yes I was trying to capture the same sentiment in this discussion that people dont try hard enough and before they try they want to just give up.I am saying that this is because they have an escape route in the form of divorce.The truth be told I support abortion on the grounds that the relationship is abusive and could result in injury to one or both parties
@jonesy123 (3948)
• United States
3 Feb 09
While it is indeed true that some people nowadays enter into marriage lightly, I don't think that it is a good think to completely exclude divorce. Even the catholic church leaves a way out through annulment. It's just hard to get.
Even people who have done some serious soul-searching before getting married might find themselves in a situation where saving the marriage is not really an option. People change over time and sometimes the changes aren't necessarily good. Others were good in faking a certain personality they knew would attract the person they want to marry but that is impossible to keep up over time. I don't think people should be stuck in an abusive relationship, nor have to tolerate a spouse's adulterous behavior. People also shouldn't have to be stuck with somebody who claimed he/she wanted children and then doesn't. If you find out that your partner has lied to you just to get you to marry him/her, and the lie is serious and would have changed your mind to enter into marriage... should you be stuck with that person?
There are very valid reasons for people to seek a divorce and I think that option should be available. However, it should not be that easily obtainable. Just look at Las Vegas. You can get married and go next door and get divorced, all within minutes. That's just crazy. It shouldn't be easy because it will make it more likely that those who are just tired of each other to make another go of their marriage. But it should definitely be an option.
Arranged marriages usually work out because either the family put much thought into matching compatible partners or tradition simply forces a couple to tolerate each other. Usually the latter is more likely the case in relationships and cultures where the wife has to be submissive and has been raised to please her husband, to take care of her family, and to keep her family together at all cost. If there is abuse, adulterous behavior, or disagreements... well, it's not brought to the outside but kept quiet.
1 person likes this
@DCMerkle (1281)
• United States
4 Feb 09
jonesy,
Yes the catholic church does leave an option, but not without consequenses. My uncle had an annulment of his first marriage. It took years, too many interviews either by the family priest, bishop, archbishop and then someone from the diocese that represented the Vatican. He was finally granted the annulment. I was just learning about the sacraments of the church and had just finished up the marriage part. I must have been around 10-11. I was putting two and two together and then it hit me. If the marriage never existed then what happens to his two boys from that marriage? Living together was a sin and any children in that relationship was children born out of wedlock. So that makes them.....? I asked that question one night at supper and I thought my mother was going to fall off her chair. All my father said was that I should just eat and not get into the family business.
If a women in a bad marriage is granted the divorce in the courts with no consequences to the children, then why can't the catholic church just see it as a bad marriage and except it for what it was and not have to make it's members go through such hoops and without the stigma to the children?
Marriage is something that should not be gone into lightly, but a divorce in the catholic church should not be looked at as such a sin.
DCMerkle
@jonesy123 (3948)
• United States
4 Feb 09
I have seen annulments go through in under a year. Of course the marriage was short and there were no children involved. Having to jump through multiple hoops for several years obviously shows that they took a lot into consideration before they granted the annulment. There were kids, the marriage lasted for a couple of years I assume. It begs the question as to what changed that necessitated an annulment. I suppose one of the parties involved, the one seeking the annulment (you can seek an annulment without the consent of the other party involved), put their own desires to date and remarry over the status of their children after the annulment. Yes, in essence they would not be children born out of wedlock, which is why it used to be next to impossible to get an annulment when children were involved. Children born out of wedlock also used to be considered to be carrying an automatic giant sin with them. That's not true anymore today. Now the fault falls to the parents who produced a child out of wedlock. That is pretty much equal to adultery... Yet, the parent(s) also would commit adultery if they would start dating and even marrying another person, if the original marriage had not yet been annulled... In your uncles case, two counts of adultery because of the two children involved, compared to a multitude number of adultery in another relationship. Gotta save a sinner from continuing to sin, alas the annulment is granted. Now you uncle doesn't live in sin and the children, albeit out of wedlock aren't considered sinners anymore anyway.
Didn't used to be that way. A hundred years ago your uncle would have had a hart time getting that annulment. Standards change. Back then some spouses also found an unfortunate 'accidental' or less 'accidental' demise. A certain King of England comes to mind, who eventually formed his own church because the catholic church didn't quite agree with his chop off the head of his wife type of 'legal' divorce;)
@kiran8 (15348)
• Mangalore, India
4 Feb 09
I dont think that i would support a bill of that kind . If a marriage is solid then it works well, it all depends on the partners. There can be any number of laws in place but it is in the hands of the individuals to make it a success or not. I dont see any purpose in making 2 people stay together when they are unhappy in a relationship and would much rather live separately and be happy !
1 person likes this
@messageme (2821)
• United States
4 Feb 09
I don't think people would work harder to keep their marriages, I think they would think twice before getting married in the first place! Too many people do it just because. Especially the younger generation! It seems so many are getting married only to get divoriced a year or two later. I don't think people would really look at it as something fun to do, but to start looking at it as a life long commitment like it should be! I think haveing a bill to block a divorce would have it's pros and cons. I don't think it should completely deny someone to get a divorce, but I think you should have really, really good reasons to get one and you should have to be able to show proof of why you think you and your spouse should be granted to divorice. I can't see it ever passing though because lots of laywers would probably fight the bill. They would lose LOTS of money who else pays the lawyers bills but people who get divorce since the rate is so high. They would actually have to take a pay cut!
1 person likes this
@CintaKurnia (39)
• Indonesia
4 Feb 09
When two poeples mean woman and man decision have marriage in their live. There are two thing that I can said. First the couples wanna each other be a side for his/her live. The couples doesnt wanna loose him/her. Every second, every minute each other wanna spent its time with other. Second when couple decision marriage there is way to training each other. Is the other is faith or not? Is the couple is good enough for other? Then when each other have diference. It is so nature thing. Cause one differ from other. The most important thing is keep his/him faith, keeping touch and dont blame difference more bigger.
1 person likes this
@mindymelena (158)
• United States
4 Feb 09
i would absolutely never vote yes for something like that. divorce is every american's god-given right ! people are so fickle and things can go bad so quickly.... you never can tell which marriages will work these days. some people honestly don't need to be together.. and if there was a law that made them be together i think you'd find a rise in stalking and domestic abuse.
@ronnyb (6113)
• Jamaica
4 Feb 09
I get the point you are making that people should have the right to change their mind in case things go wrong but how do we balance that with those persons who are not willing to try becasue they have divorce as an escape route.Maybe many marriages would do better if they didnt have this escape as they would try to work on it.Granted the flip side is that they could end up being stalking and domestic abuse ...I guess now I would probably want a law against those too
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
5 Feb 09
I think that many people don't try enough to keep from getting a divorce. But blocking people from getting one is not the answer. Obviously you were never abused as a person with another person that just loves using you for a punching bag or otherwise mistreated in some other way.
Making these people have to stay in an abused marriage. Well lets just say that's being abused in more ways than one, they would have no way out.
They are in many states and Tennessee is one of them that forces the couple to have terapy or marriage counseling before a divorce, even when abuse is present they expect the abuser to go to therapy for this.
Many people just want out, no more abuse...just out.
@cobrateacher (8432)
• United States
6 Feb 09
Of course not! The government needs to get itself out of people's personal lives. Some believe divorce is sinful and would never do it, so there's no divorce for them. Others believe mistakes can be rectified. Most are simply looking at a case-by-case view, and what is right for one couple may not be so for another. How could the government justify getting involved? Their job is to govern, not to parent.
@veejay19 (3589)
• India
5 Feb 09
I am from India where marriage is taken very seriously. When the couple take the marriage vows they pledge never to be seperated till they die. Infact women throughout their married life do some religious ritual for a longlasting marriage and for the good health and prosperity of their husbands. Divorce and seperation is the very last thing in their mind and neither husband nor wife want to even think about it. Yes, nowadays with the modern and stressed out lifestyle there has been a rise in divorce cases but this is mostly in urban areas. In rural areas couples stick it out even if they do not get along well as divorce carries a stigma, especially for women and their chance for remarriage is very slim. I do not think that a bill against divorce will ever be supported here even if people are against it because most people are confident of having a happy married life. And if such circumstances do arise where divorce is the final option they will still try to make it work and then if it is still of no use then after getting counselling they will finally go for it.I am also single so it does not apply to me but yet i would not support such a bill.lol.
@hmkoct5 (2065)
• United States
5 Feb 09
I wouldn't support such a bill. I think that sometimes marriage is a bad idea, but you don't know it until you are married. If you are absolutely miserable with the person you are married to, I don't think you should be stuck in the marriage. I think it should be a little harder to get divorced. Couples should have to go to counseling and prove that they gave it their best try. But, forcing people to stay married doesn't seem the way to go.
@deejean06 (1952)
• United States
5 Feb 09
I agree with you that people view marriage as a light arrangement these days. I was once told years ago that anyone can make a wedding - there are few people who can have a real marriage.
However I don't agree with you that it should be a government law that people cannot get divorced. There are more than enough times when the government intervenes in our personal lives. Sometimes divorce is a good thing and is necessary when the marriage causes physical harm either to a spouse or children.