I wonder how smart i COULD have been, if only my parents hadn't spanked me..
By fruitcakeliz
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
United States
September 27, 2009 12:01pm CST
Results being released by the University of New Hampshire this week show a relationship between a child's IQ and whether or not they were spanked. This study, which followed 1500 children in two differnt age groups (2-4 and 5-9) found that Children who were spanked as a form of punishment had lower IQ scores after four years than their couterparts who were from non-spanking homes.
see the article from CBS here..
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/25/earlyshow/health/main5339338.shtml
Granted, the difference in IQ scores was only 2-5 points, depending on the age group. I didn't see it mentioned in this particular article, but when i first heard about this study on a bit on my local news, they mentioned that researchers attributed this phenomenon to the fact that children who are spanked suffer froma mild form of PTSD, or post-traumatic stress disorder.
So how about you, were you spanked as a child, as i was? Do you beleive in spanking your children? And i don't mean BEATING your children, i mean a simple swat or two on the behind to correct bad behavior, just enough to get their attention and maybe sting for a minute or two. Do you really think that spanking can cause PTSD and lowered IQ in children, or are these just coincidences?
3 people like this
23 responses
@dex1007 (556)
• Malaysia
28 Sep 09
hahaha! really? oh wow... i guess my IQ is lower than what it would have been. Oh i got spanked alright. countless times, hard. haha. beating up if you'd call it.
personally, i don't believe i'd ever spank my (future) kids. i don't believe its a coincidence. childhood is a part of a human's life. the biggest part. it shapes the human, and influences the person greatly when they grow up. I was studying psycholinguistics subject last few semesters and from there i've learned that kids are more aware then we think. just talking to them differently can influence them differently, spanking them is even bigger. Parents spank their kids because the kid has misbehaved or is naughty, what the parents need to do is find something the kid likes, because a child needs something to focus its energy on, a sport or a hobby is what it needs to prevent misbehaving acts, making them more focused and better behaved. That's just my theory based on my learning of a child's mind development.
1 person likes this
@voldrox (7191)
• India
28 Sep 09
hi dex . . . i understand you have been spanked as a child or rather as you say beaten up, there is a reason why parents do it, i have been there too... hmm well you know what, even when i think about it, i also can't imagine myself doing like that to my kids, i think i might be a 'soft person' but you know there must be someway we should let our children know what is right and what is wrong. . . personally i guess i would try to explain them things the easy way in the beginning but don't know if anytime i would require to spank them, i guess sometimes i could, but still . . . that time is far off for me...lol... just at times i think about the future a lot and so i was just wondering, hmm i know you don't like to spank your children too but i know you will find some others means to let them know right from wrong, have a nice day dex!
@dex1007 (556)
• Malaysia
28 Sep 09
I can't say i agree. you can just talk it out with a child. treat a child as you would treat an adult. I know a few people who have never been spanked or anything by their parents, and i know kids who have been. there is a major difference in those two sets of kids. the spanked ones are actually more misbehaved, whereas the non-spanked kids are very matured and adult-like kids who listen to their parents when they are told to do something. but i guess we will agree to disagree on this one. since we both feel strongly about our opinions. :) great topic there.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
as i said, it is every parents right to decide whether spanking their children is something they wish to do or not. personaly, both i and my brother (who i spoke to about this article) both feel that we are better off for being spanked. It left us knowing exactly what ws right and what was wrong in reguards to our actions,as we didn't enjoy being spanked, so after the first time, we knew not to ever do it (or anything at all similar to it)again!
@lynnemg (4529)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I was definately spanked as a child and I have spanked my kids when needed. I grew up just fine and very intelligent, and my kids are all very intelligent too. I really think that there is no true connection between the two. I know more people who were not spanked and got into a lot of trouble and struggled through school than I do people who were spanked. I have heard many, many people who are now adults that have said that they wish their parents hd spanked them when they needed it because they would have tried harder.
I think that the real connection is not with spanking, I think that it has more to do with how the parents value their child's education and how much they not only encourage, but also challenge the child.
1 person likes this
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
exactly....parents who take a "no spanking" stance are probably mre likely to not really ever enforce consequenses of any sort to their childrens actions, and i think this is important. You need to be involved in your childs life, and that means that you need to re-enforce good behavior and give consequences for bad, whether that is a spanking, or the denial of certain privilages that are important to the child (and actually following through with said denial) is up to the parent. But just being totally apathetic about what your child does, and to leave thm feeling as if it doesn't matter if they do bad (or good for that matter) because mom and dad won't REALLY do anything about it, just re-enforces the bad behavior...
1 person likes this
@Eisenherz (2908)
• Portugal
27 Sep 09
I wonder how smart you could be if you got over said speaking. Because while you were a victim and all, there's help out there for your cases. Did you ever try to reach it? Why label your intelligence after the consequences of others? Seems like you're just too eager to blame your folks and have the excuse of a lifetime. Do a favour to yourself and overcome your personal issues, that's my advice.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
27 Sep 09
Personaly i think you should have read the discussion, as opposed to just making a blanket staement that i am seeking to blame my parents and that i am a "victim".
The discussion title was just a "teaser" to draw people in and read about the research that was recently released. I am not angry with my parents for spanking me, truth be told, i deserved it when they did, and it was not a beating or anything that traumatized me. Also, i am not stupid, i have no complaints about my IQ...as last it was tested, lets just say i was well above average. Two to 5 extra points that might have been lost due to being spanked as a child would not have made much of a difference to my intelligence quotient.
@savak03 (6684)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I am a firm believer in spanking. Every kid needs discipline. Dr. Spock first came out with the idea that kids should not be punished when they do bad things but after a generation of children grew up without restraints to become adults without restraints he retracted his earlier statements. The Bible states that we should discipline our children and bring them up in the mental regulating of God. When we don't do that we have children that don't respect us or anything else.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
sorry LoL...i'll step down off my soap box now.....*thinking back over a lot of todays previous posts*....i have been doin that a lot today....
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I agree, i have seen SLEWS of children that grew up in homes that didn't beleive in any form of punishment such as spanking, andoyu know what? the kids all turned out to be spoiled rotton little imps that felt that the world owed them something, even though they weren't doing anything to deserve it, and they always seem to think that the world is being "unfair" to them whenever they have to suffer theconsequenses of their actions later in life.
@voldrox (7191)
• India
28 Sep 09
Hi fruitcakeliz
Well this is certainly very controversial . . . hmm there are some others disadvantages to not spanking your kids, they might have high IQ levels but do you want to not to obey you ? i mean it happens and i have seen, some parents are too 'soft' on their kids and there kids are like 'i don't give a damn' and yes they sometimes say like that to their own parents! i know some guys like that, i mean what do they think they are, after all it is their parents who helped them with the education and loved them and took care of them when they were small and this is the 'respect' they give to their parents!
. . . i am sorry i may be sounding like a stereotype i know . . . but i don't like such kids who think they are 'all that' just because their parents have allowed him/her to do anything and have agreed to let their child do anything out of love . . . i think a every child requires minor spanking at some point to time . . . no stone should be left unturned!
have a nice day fruitcakeliz!
. . . i am sorry i may be sounding like a stereotype i know . . . but i don't like such kids who think they are 'all that' just because their parents have allowed him/her to do anything and have agreed to let their child do anything out of love . . . i think a every child requires minor spanking at some point to time . . . no stone should be left unturned!
have a nice day fruitcakeliz!@voldrox (7191)
• India
28 Sep 09
well just for your information, i have been spanked and sometimes hard, hey but don't take that response the wrong way, i mean don't think that my parents spanked me to gain 'respect' it isn't like that, i actually needed them
. . . i guess that is why i have always stayed the nice boy i am now...lol . . . my parents helped me distinguish between good and bad when i was small, i felt bad when i was spanked but now i have grown up to realize they just did the right thing, my parents have always been considerate enough to see they were not spanking too hard . . . i am a 'soft' person and am not sure whether i will be spanking when i have kids, but yeah small children need to be shown their 'conscience' and it is on our part to let them know what is right and what is wrong . . . i guess it is not too much i said....hehe
. . . i guess that is why i have always stayed the nice boy i am now...lol . . . my parents helped me distinguish between good and bad when i was small, i felt bad when i was spanked but now i have grown up to realize they just did the right thing, my parents have always been considerate enough to see they were not spanking too hard . . . i am a 'soft' person and am not sure whether i will be spanking when i have kids, but yeah small children need to be shown their 'conscience' and it is on our part to let them know what is right and what is wrong . . . i guess it is not too much i said....hehe
sorry i got a little off topic i know hehe. . . well but for one reason yeah those children who don't get spanked, some of them really grow out to be smart i agree . . .
@phoenix1344 (698)
• United States
7 Oct 09
This is absolutely ridiculouse. I was spanked as a child and according to this case study that makes me dumber then I could have been? This sounds like serious left-wing b.s. to me. I honestly cannot stand people that truly think spanking gives people mild PTSD. I certaintly don't have it and I was spanked. Not to mention, I've seen living proof of children that aren't spanked and they are becoming incredibly spoiled rotten.
I don't think there is any problem with spanking. Of course beating your child is wrong. But there is a difference between beating them and spanking them. So I don't care what CPS says when I finally had my own kids, spanking will definitely be part of their punishment.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
8 Oct 09
just watch out where you spank your children and who sees it! in todays society it is not unheard of for someone to call social services on your for swatting your kid on the butt when he/she misbehaves in the supermarket!
ridiculous i know....
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
27 Sep 09
I always thought I was not as smart as I should be (145 instead of 200) because I believe I was not br*st fed because it was during the 2nd World War, and a lot of the women including my mother had to work and we were given cows milk or evaporated instead of goats milk like the babies in Italy and Greece probably got when their mothers had to work. I was spanked once and it made me afraid of trying anything new and thinking that everyone was against me and believe that I was over nervous, but it was not just a slap on the rear, it was a real spanking albeit with a hand.
So I do not think that a slap on the rear or a swat would do it, it would have to really hurt and there would have to be a lot of pain associated with it to affect your iq.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
Exactly. I could totally see children who were "over" punished by spanking (spanking beyond a reasonable amount...beaten, left with bruises) maybe suffering some in the IQ department because of it....well, actually, no...how does being spanked have ANYTHING to do with how smart one is come to think of it? maybe with how hard you apply yourself to your work, but not how smart you actually are. I know plenty of people who are VERY intelligent, but come off as slackers, just because they lack ambition...
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
29 Sep 09
I was told all that about the not too bright boy who worked hard and became the president of the company. Not very encouraging to someone with an iq of 145. Is as if they are saying, I should be the prime minister of Canada or the Queen of England and I do not know if I have royal blood in me or not. I do think that if a child is over spanked or over punished in proportion of the sin or misdeed, that child becomes fearful and will lose the incentive to try hard. So iy id not laziness or slackness, it is true unbridled fear. Or as they say a broken spirit.
I do think that if a child is over spanked or over punished in proportion of the sin or misdeed, that child becomes fearful and will lose the incentive to try hard. So iy id not laziness or slackness, it is true unbridled fear. Or as they say a broken spirit.
@AmbiePam (92504)
• United States
27 Sep 09
My mom is a genius according to her IQ, and she was spanked. My dad was spanked and came from poverty on to get his Masters and graduate top of class, at the age of 50. My sister got her Masters degree by the age of 20, and she was spanked. I think people who are spanked aren't going to be too damaged. Although people who were beaten, are another story. And please people, let's not get into the argument on those two things being the same. I never had a mark on me. But I never got into trouble, graduated with straight eyes, two years early in high school. My health stinks, but my my brain is okay.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
27 Sep 09
well..i am glad you didn't graduate cross-eyed..(sorry, i coudln't resist that typo, don't hate me)
Obviously your family suffered no ill effects of the occasional spanking used as a correctional measure. the same withmy brother and i, we are both very bright, intelligent people, but mom and dad never "spared the rod" so to speak, while we were growing up.
And i agree, there is a HUGE difference between being spanked and being beaten and abused. As i stated in my original discussion, by spanking we are talking a quick swat or twoon the behind, mostly to cause surprise...not pain, and to get a childs attention and also cause them to equate something that is certainly not pleasurable (though my no means painful and damaging) to whatever mis-deed they were doing at the time.
@silverglint (2000)
• Philippines
29 Sep 09
Hi, I believe in spanking for little kids. But we should not use our bare hands to spank a child, something else should be used, like a paddle or brush, and you should only spank a child on his buttocks and not anywhere else. The reason we don't use our bare hands is because our hands should be a symbol of love for the child and not discipline. Whenever you reach out to your child with bare hands, he should be sure that you are going to caress him or show him love. But if you start reaching out for something to spank him with, then he will know that you mean business and will stop what he is doing wrong. As much as possible, I do not want to spank my kids, but I will if I have to. I think that spanking should be done out of love and not out of anger. Whenever I do spank my kids, I would explain to them what they did wrong, why is was wrong then once they apologize, I would hug them and assure them that I love them.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
29 Sep 09
eeks....i am sorry, but spaking with a paddle or a brush seems far worse to me than spanking with a hand. If you spank with a hand you have better control and knowledge of how hard you are striking...but with another object? It could be far to easy to inadvertantly cause serious harm to a child.
Other than that, i agree with what you have to say. It is very important that the child understand WHY they were spanked, and to know that being spanked doesn't mean that they are not loved.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
28 Sep 09
Well, like we talked about last night, I usualy reserved spanking my kids mostly for a few areas, things that were an imediate danger to them or others, things that severly interfered with other's rights or abuse towards others and mouthing off to me. It was consistant and certain as it was when I was a kid. The fear of getting my behind whalloped kept me from doing a lot of stupid things and kept me out of a lot of trouble, I am extremely gratefull for it today.
As for the study, it is what I would expect from a feel-goody-warm fuzzy university like UNH. It was also flawed and almost set up to produce the results that came out of it.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
Thanks for sharing in my discussion! I thought you would get a kick outta the fact that it was a study based out of your own state LoL. Fear can do wonders can't it? Some people say that putting fear into your children is not good for them either, but we inform children that fire is hot..and that is will burn you and make you hurt terribly if you come in contact with it. Is that not putting fear into our children? but at the same time, is this not preventing them from injuring themselves by playing with fire?
sometimes we have to look at what we do and decide if it is in the name of a greater good.
@hotsummer (13837)
• Philippines
28 Sep 09
i was spanked. but i remember that my spanked me so lightly though. that i could hardly remember the pain. i just remember the humiliation though . ha ha. i guess that explains the reason of my low IQ and therefore i am excused for not doing well in school when i was a student.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I don't know if i would go as far as to use it as an "excuse" for why you didn't do as well in school....but according to this study, i MIGHT have something to do with it.
And i think that is a lot of it, the humiliation....spankings should not be done hard enough to actually cause PAIN in the child...or lasting pain or red marks or bruises even, but it is more of a way to get the childs attention in a way that is not a positive, happy thing. It does seem to have its positives, when done correctly, in the right time and place.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I didn't read the study in detail, so i am not certain what their criteria were for an appropriate spanking, but you are correct, one parents spanking might differ quite greatly in severity or frequency and for different infractions, than that of another parent, and this could cause variations in the results.
@magickat (381)
•
28 Sep 09
Sounds like a lot of old nonsense to me. I think people go over the top re the whole spanking debate. I don't agree with beating children (before anyone decides to jump down my throat) but see nothing wrong with a smacked bottom every now and then - it didn't do me or my brother any harm and as I recall most of my friends were brought up the same way.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
Most people i know as well, were spanked as children. And yes, we all need to bear in mind that there is a HUGE difference between spanking a child, and abusing it.
@EnglishTeaDuck (862)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I think the whole IQ-spanking connection is a load of rubbish - and I think the odd swat is ok as a last resort.
However, I will say my mothers forms of punishment affected my confidence for life. I believe its up to me to get over that now, but I do think the way you are dealt with by your parents can create self esteem issues which are very hard to get over. However, I don't think your actual intelligence is the same thing.
I should say I believe her spanking/hitting was excessive and was couple with emotional abuse and manipulations, put downs etc, so as I said, a simple swat for discipline is not the same as this in my opinion.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I am sorry to hear that your mother occasionaly took things too far. That is something that people need to be aware of. Some parents couple the spankings with other physical punishments, or even just verbal and mental abuse, which is never good thing for a child (or an adult for that matter)
@stephcjh (38473)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I do not think a spank here or there actually affects the child and their self esteem. I think alot of children need to be spanked when other corrective measures are not working. Excessive spanking could cause PTSD though, especially if they do not know why they are being spanked.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
yes, i agree, there is a difference between spanking your child to get a point across and spaking your child when you child has no idea what they are getting spanked for. Spanking your child just because you are having a bad day and have no patience to deal with the things they are doing which may be annoying to you at the moment, but not necissarily BAD will just confuse the child, and possibly make them scared of you.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
Wow, you wanna know what surprises me so far from all the responses i have gotten? I haven't had a sinlge person come in here and talk about how this just goes to show that physical violence is not the way...
So fr everyone has pretty much either disagreed with this study, or come to the conclusion that a few IQ points is not worth raising a child who is unruley. And everyone agrees that even though they were spanked, it didn't traumatize them in any way...
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
28 Sep 09
I think I can count on one hand how many times I was spanked as a child. I don't really spank my children I think that I can count on one hand how many times I have spanked my three children combined. I'm sure it's possible for children to suffered PTSD from spankings I can remember being shocked after a spanking.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
And i do agree that it is each parents right as to whether or not they spank their children, i just think it is silly to spend a lot of time on research such as this trying toconvince people that spanking their children will make their children dumb. It is were a more significant decrease, i would possibly give the idea some merit...
@venkat_readingmails (82)
• India
28 Sep 09
i don't think spanking makes a child dumb. intelligence / IQ is the gift given by god to us. the only way to improve is to read. spanking can make a child adamant but not to an extent that it lowers the child's IQ
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
which also leads me to wonder, did the people who performed this study take care to ensure that all the children, spanked or not spanked, came from homes where the same emphasis was put on learning and reading? If not, that could have really skewed the results as well.
@schentil (98)
• India
28 Sep 09
hi, first of all I do not like spanking the children for whatever reason it could be. Be it to correct bad behavior or any mistakes done by them. There are always many other ways that most parents do not know to bring up their children with good moral and educated. Moreover that spanking will lead many untoward reactions from children that we would have not expected at all. Better way to correct their mistake, as far as my view is concerned, would be to giving example, explaining them the bad results of their activities, etc.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
As i stated earlier, every parents is entitled to their own opinion on the spank or not to spank situation. I am not here to tell anyone that they should, or shoudln't be spanking their children. Just wanted to merely point out the findings of this study.
@malamar (779)
• Canada
28 Sep 09
Honestly, you can put a spin on any study ever done to make it sound good for what platform you are speaking from, but let's just let common sense prevail. Since the whole hoopla of counting (1,2,3) and the time-out crap replaced spanking, the Board of Education has lowered the equilavency test standards for students because too many of kids couln't make the grade.
I don't think it is just a spanking issue, it is more the total lack of discipline happening in so many households today. Not to colour all kids with the same brush, but you have to admit, there are some crazy, wild, out-of-control kids running around today.
A good old fashioned smack on the butt does not an idiot make, and I doubt any study will conclusively prove otherwise.
I swear, the next time I see some mom in the grocery store counting to three for the fifteenth time, I'll be giving her a.....well, never mind.
I think you see where I stand on the issue.
@fruitcakeliz (2639)
• United States
28 Sep 09
yes, i think you made your point quite clear LoL...and i must say i agree with you.
I appreciate all the info that you, and other posters have pointed out about the facts that ever since "spanking" and corporal punishment has become taboo, that children have shown markedly lower scores on standardized testing and what not. That really gives us all something to think about.
I remember when my parents used to do the "count to three thing"....but it actually worked with my brother and i, they usually never got passed number one...let alone actually had to say two before we stopped whatever behavior they were condeming, but that is because we KNEW what happend if the reached three, and that WAS a smack on the rear end.....they didn't just use counting as an empty threat, they carried through with it, but gave us the chance to pre-empt the actual spanking by counting. Most parents now a days don't actualy carry through with the punishment that is supposedly to come if the child doesn't stop mis-behaving by the time you reach three...which just makes the tactic useless...
