Is "No parking" the same as "No stopping"?
By mentalward
@mentalward (14690)
United States
November 9, 2011 9:20pm CST
I just got the second ticket of my life. With all the crime out there today, this cop had to give me a ticket while I wasn't even moving!
Okay, here's what happened. I was out shopping in a strip mall with my son today. I parked in a legitimate parking space. We left the store and my son said he wanted to pick something up from the store next to the one we had just left so he walked over and went in while I got in my car. My son had said I could pull up in front of that store because he'd be out in just a minute.
So, I pulled up and saw him at the cashier paying for his purchase. My car was running, it was still in drive and I had my foot on the brake pedal.
Now, this is important. There were signs that said ONLY "No Parking At Any Time" along the curb where I had stopped and was waiting. There were absolutely NO signs saying that I could not STOP.
A cop pulled up behind me and gave me the third degree as I gave him my license and registration, totally confused as to what prompted this action because he would not tell me what the problem was.
When he had the ticket in his hand and shoved it toward me, he FINALLY told me I was parked in a no parking zone. I told him no, I was not parked, I was waiting. I told him the car was running and I had it in drive while my son was coming out of the store. (As a matter of fact, my son was back in the car before I had even found my registration. It was that quick.) Anyway, the cop said that "parking" and "stopping" are the same thing. Naturally, my mouth came into play before I thought about it and I said, "Then I PARK at every red light I come to." Needless to say, I got the ticket with a warning that if I said one more thing, the cop could have my car towed (and I'm still sitting in it with it still running, you understand) and it would cost me $500 to get it back.
So, in your opinion, is "parking" and "stopping" EXACTLY the same thing? Not to me, it isn't. Stopping means the car is still running and it's only a momentary thing. Parking indicates an intent to stay awhile.
Do you think I should fight this? I'm thinking of getting a driver's manual and going over it with a fine-toothed comb to see if it says ANYWHERE that Parking and Stopping are the same thing. I know it doesn't. I'm also thinking of taking a dictionary with me to court to point out the difference between Parking and Stopping. I also thought of taking photographs of the signs where I got the ticket that clearly say NO PARKING only and nowhere does it say NO STOPPING. Can you think of anything else I should do if I do go to court?
This has made me SO ANGRY!!! 
People are out there driving and breaking all kinds of laws. To me, moving violations are much worse than someone sitting in her car while it's still running and in gear where it says No Parking, ready and able to move in a flash if needed.
Grrrrr!!! 
Sorry this is so long but I'm really angry!
People are out there driving and breaking all kinds of laws. To me, moving violations are much worse than someone sitting in her car while it's still running and in gear where it says No Parking, ready and able to move in a flash if needed.
Grrrrr!!! Sorry this is so long but I'm really angry!13 people like this
24 responses
@ShepherdSpy (8544)
• Omagh, Northern Ireland
10 Nov 11
I'd be feeling the same way if that happened me,I think..I'd define parked as being stopped with the parking brake on,and maybe the car unattended..as you would leave the car in a parking bay! As you were in "Drive" with your engine running and brake lights on,the car was good to go..just as you would be when stopped in traffic at a light..IMO,you were stopped,not parked..I think the cop at most should have given a warning and moved you on...I get that the US may be more strict about blocking a fire lane or hydrant access,but I think you should get clarification on the legal difference between parking and stopping!
@danishcanadian (28953)
• Canada
10 Nov 11
Excellent point!!! All signs point to "stopped, not parked."
4 people like this
@ShepherdSpy (8544)
• Omagh, Northern Ireland
10 Nov 11
If the sign had said "No Waiting" instead,then yes,the cop might have had a point..
3 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Exactly, ShepherdSpy! I did not see one sign that said "No Standing" or "No Stopping", nothing like it. I have seen areas where signs would say that but always added that it was a fire lane. This was not a fire lane. He very well could have just told me to move and never do this again and I would have complied but he is a bully and didn't give me that option.
I will be going to court on December 5th. Everything I'm learning about this points to my being innocent.
3 people like this
@UmiNoor (4523)
• Malaysia
10 Nov 11
You have a right to be angry. I would be angry too if I were you. You're just stopping for awhile and not leaving the car with no driver. You're not obstructing traffic. I think the policeman has to go back to school and learn how to differentiate between parking and stopping. You should fight this. I know you will win.
6 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Thank you, UmiNoor. I have decided that I will be going to court and fighting this. I have done some investigating and learned that, according to the law, I was NOT parked as I was picking up a passenger. As long as the police officer does not lie, I should be able to have this dismissed.
3 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
5 Dec 11
I went to court today and the judge threw the case out! He said this should never have happened and glared at the cop when he said it. So, my driving record is still clean. 
1 person likes this
@danishcanadian (28953)
• Canada
10 Nov 11
OK, this is a good one, and probably the most intelligent thing I've read on here all day! :)
I can see both sides of this story, but I'm leaning more towards your side.
Your side:
-I was stopped, and waiting for my son in the store.
Cop-store-sign's side
Your car was there for a longer duration than a stop-sign, or stop-light would suggest.
Your side:
I could see him in the window, he was on his way out, and look, he just jumped in the car. If you weren't here giving me this damned ticket, I'd have been on my way by now.
Cop-store-sign's side
If we make an exception for you, we'll have to make an exception for everyone. He/they didn't know that man coming out of the store was your son, and by the time he jumped into the car, he was already writing the ticket.
Your side:
I stop at lights, I stop at stop-signs, if there is a lot of traffic in front of me, my stops could last many many minutes.
Their side:
There were no cars in front of you, and with the stop logic, people could "stop" here and wait all day for any old kinfolk, who might spend an hour yapping to the cashier.
Your side:
I was speaking the truth about stopping at the stop lights/signs
Their side:
We're the law, we can say what we want!
I thin you were very brave for mouthing off to the cop!! I would have done the same thing. They need to knwo they can't go around intimidating people.
Would your son be willing to be a witness? I bet if you two works together, you might be able to fight this, and even if you don't win, you can atleast try to get the language on the signs changed (no loitering, no waiting, absolutely no stopping-parking at ANY TIME!).
Personally I think YOU are right, because the signs were not clear enough. My "other side" arguments were simply stating what might be said by the defense, if you took this to court.
Thanks for making me think. It's been one of those days.
5 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Well, thank you, danish! I know what you mean and love a good discussion that makes me think, also. I love the way you've responded, giving both sides.
You, unfortunately, hit the nail on the head when you wrote, "We're the law, we can say what we want!" They can make things up as they go along and I've seen it happen. The power goes to their heads, at least most of them.
I think my son would be willing to take the day off work to help. Actually, he'd only need to take half a day off. That would make it him and me against the cop, two against one. I think just telling the judge that I would have complied if the cop had only given me a warning, especially after he saw that I have a clean driving record and have even taken a defensive driving class (that's on my record, too). I'm sure the judge has seen more than his share of cops with highly inflated egos. I can only hope that the judge doesn't have one of them himself. 
I will be going to court on Dec. 5 and fight this. I believe I do have a good chance of beating it. Thanks again for the awesome comment!
I will be going to court on Dec. 5 and fight this. I believe I do have a good chance of beating it. Thanks again for the awesome comment!2 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
12 Nov 11
I hope that's the case, bagarad, that he doesn't show up. I want to be totally prepared, though. I am always respectful to those who deserve respect and judges do, at least until they prove otherwise but I won't be in a position to determine that when I go to court. He will be treated with upmost respect. I've seen that they usually are fair and just.
@bagarad (14283)
• Paso Robles, California
11 Nov 11
Let's assume the judge will have an ego. Appeal to it. Imply that you know he will be fair and be very respectful. I have seen a few court cases where defendants are representing themselves. The judges usually bend over backwards to make sure they understand what's going on and what their rights are. Be very respectful and appear to be respectful toward the cop. Resist any temptation to make anyone look foolish or to "mouth off." In the best case, the cop won't bother to show up if he knows his case is weak.
1 person likes this
@Hatley (163776)
• Garden Grove, California
10 Nov 11
hi mentalward I know you are angry but just look at it from the impersonal view point of the law to them no parking and no stopping mean the same thing. I know because years back my husband had the same thing happen to him and he tried to fight it but the judge said in the eyes of the laws stopping and parking mean the same thing so best not to fight it. my husband did not get them mad
so he just paid the ordinary ticket.to me you should have just stayed where you were parked as even just stopping there is breaking the
law. after all you were taking up space that was supposed to be open to customers of that store.I am not saying its right or wrong but just suppose two people just stopped long enough for a family member to make a quick purchase and someone really needed the parking space? Please don't get angry with me but after all you had had a valid parking space so why not just have kept it? see I do not drive nor do I have a car so I look at things from a pedestrian's viewpoint.[
so he just paid the ordinary ticket.to me you should have just stayed where you were parked as even just stopping there is breaking the
law. after all you were taking up space that was supposed to be open to customers of that store.I am not saying its right or wrong but just suppose two people just stopped long enough for a family member to make a quick purchase and someone really needed the parking space? Please don't get angry with me but after all you had had a valid parking space so why not just have kept it? see I do not drive nor do I have a car so I look at things from a pedestrian's viewpoint.[5 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I could never get angry with you, Hatley! I understand what you are saying. Where I got the ticket wasn't a customer parking area, it was the fire lane, where people stop briefly to let out or pick up people. I actually witnessed that happening in front of me before I even stopped there. I was there to do exactly the same thing but it took a minute longer and for that I got the ticket. I was also able to take off in a micro-second if a fire truck came by.
Yes, I am aware that trying to "teach" a judge something is not a good idea. I'm sure that if I got a lawyer, I could get this dropped because it can be taken quite literally and, technically, even that cop saw that I was not parked. I think he was hoping that he could "get" something on me when he took my license but my record is squeeky clean without a mark on it. This really has me quite angry. I told the cop that they should put "No stopping" signs out instead of or along with the No parking signs.
If I were on a jury and we had to decide if someone was parked or just stopped, we would have to take it quite literally, as the dictionary defines them. That's why I can't see them doing this double-standard thing.
Well, at least I've already taken a defensive driving course and received 5 "good" points on my record. In Virginia, you can do that to "counter" 5 bad points. I know the cop saw that and that makes it even worse.
6 people like this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Hi Hatley! Wow! That happened to your hubby and they said it was the same thing? I wouldn't have thought that. I encouraged MW to fight it.. but maybe she shouldn't.. but I think she should show up in court and state her case anyway.. if she loses she pays a fine .. but if she wins she might just get a warning from the judge. I hope she can win her case. I bet she doesn't do that again though.. I wouldn't. Hugs to both of you wonderful women. 
5 people like this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I have to agree with pointless and Mental, Hatley. I think your husband could have actually fought that one. It is a fire lane for sure that is hardly ever used. I see the local bus that transports people that don't drive pull up there all the time to let people off or pick them up. had she parked her car like I did and run in then I can see why maybe she got at ticket but seeing as she was sitting right there with the car in drive, I really think in all fairness the officer should have given her the option to move rather than give her a ticket.
5 people like this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I don't think parking and stopping are the same thing. If the car is parked, it is in park with the ignition off, in my estimation. I would certainly go to court and fight this. Surely, I wouldn't have pulled into a no parking zone, but since you were just there for a minute or two and not parked I see no problem. I think you can win this. I would be interested in knowing what happens next. I would fight it. I think you were being bullied by that cop.
5 people like this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Pointless,
Your story is sad and I do know cops like that that are really just good guys trying to help. Sadly, a lot of them are like the one that Mental is dealing with. She definitly has a case, I think. When I did the same thing...I actually did park my car and got and ran in. In that case, I feel, I just got caught and earned the ticket. Had I been sitting in my car with it running, while sure..might be wrong but really...most cops would just tell you to move along. Busses pull up in these fire lanes all the time and so do taxis. There is someone right there in the vehicle ready to move it should a fire occur where the fire lane is actually needed for it's intended purpose. If the car is in gear and a person behind the wheel then it is NOT parked. Had she put it in park and left the vehicle..well that's another story and also another charge because it is illegal to leave your car running, Fight this Mental.
6 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
THANK YOU, PQ! That is exactly how I feel about it but I just wanted to see how others felt since I've been wrong once or twice. 
I haven't met a cop yet who wasn't a bully and I've known quite a few. I think half my family is or has been a cop at one time. I've had friends and neighbors who were cops or their spouses were. Most of them seem to have an inferiority complex that is only eliminated when they have that uniform on. Grrr!
I feel better now about wanting to go to court.
I haven't met a cop yet who wasn't a bully and I've known quite a few. I think half my family is or has been a cop at one time. I've had friends and neighbors who were cops or their spouses were. Most of them seem to have an inferiority complex that is only eliminated when they have that uniform on. Grrr!
I feel better now about wanting to go to court. 6 people like this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Yes, I think you should appeal to the judge about this. If you must pay a fine, then so be it.. but I think if you explain yourself to the judge and also explain how the police officer didn't tell you in advance of writing you a ticket of what it was for... he could have said something and you could have moved! You were behind the wheel and the car still in drive! I think if you stay calm and just state your case you could win this thing. Please keep us updated.
I know lots of cops are kind of bullies.. one though .. who was murdered on his job.. was one who would APOLOGIZE when he had to arrest someone... he was a great person, father, and husband... he was killed when responding to assist a fellow officer who had been shot. Buddy was killed before he could even get out of his squad car. We miss him a lot. He had the fewest arrest records of all the cops in Athens.. they used to joke about it.. but he was just a good guy.
5 people like this
@bagarad (14283)
• Paso Robles, California
10 Nov 11
Was the curb red or yellow? I was just wondering if by any chance it might have been a loading zone, made for loading and unloading goods and passengers. I suppose you could check out a law library and see how your vehicle code defines park and stop. That would probably hold more weight that Webster. If codes of law are like other legal documents I've seen, such as insurance policies, they probably start with a list of legal definitions. Maybe the code is even on line. The exact law you are said to have violated must be listed on the ticket so you can look it up.
Good luck. Unfortunately, I don't think you get a jury trial in traffic court.
4 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
You know what? I believe the curb was yellow. I'll go back there tomorrow to make sure and to take photos of the signs. I will also try to find legal definitions wherever I can think to look.
If I'm right and it was yellow, I have a valid argument that I was picking up a passenger which is why I did not turn off the ignition. I had no intention of getting out of the car at that spot. My son returned to the car while the cop was there so he can't say that I wasn't waiting for anyone, well, unless he lies and he'd better not lie.
6 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I'd love to see something like this on TV but I doubt I will. My court date is December 5th. But, since a lawyer has already told me that I should go to court and fight this, I will. The worst that can happen is that I'll have to pay the fine plus court cost. I'm definitely going to tell the judge that, if the officer had just warned me, it would have been enough for me to never do it again and my driving record can attest to that.
Yep, bagarad, the curb is yellow and I have the definition of "parked" which states: "Sec. 1-156. Park or Parking. Means the standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than when temporarily and actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers." I was NOT parked.
3 people like this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Good idea Mentalward. Getting a legal definition of parked and stopped would be helpful. I would love to see this in People's Court.. I've never seen one like this... it would be good to know how it would be judged by the TV judge.. that would give a clue to how it would come out in regular court.
5 people like this
@pergammano (7682)
• Canada
10 Nov 11
Marti...my dear Marti! You know I love ya, but this was one time... your car was running...and so was your mouth! Both should have been in neutral...NO, I am not being cruel, but that uniform, and that "ticket book" allows them to interpret the law at their discretion, sadly NOT yours! You have a technical point, possibly...but I truly think that fighting this "loser" is not a good idea!
I truly understand you felt that you were unfairly singled out..BUT it happened, and I know, that if you were here..you would be wasting your time, and money! Fate was tempted...and you were the loser! Sorry, dear one!1 person likes this
@pergammano (7682)
• Canada
11 Nov 11
You GO, GIRL...and I wish you the best in your endeavours! Knowing you, you will be well advised, and technically supported, as I see you have already laid your groundwork...and I pray you get a reasonable judge!
I have never encountered difficult Police Officers, but have heard of many whom have...So, I hope my luck never runs out in this manner!
I think I use all my BAD LUCK up on buying Lotto tickets..LOL!
Good luck, Marti...keep us posted!1 person likes this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
14 Dec 11
Pergy!!! The case was dismissed!!! The judge said this should never have happened because it was obvious to him that I was there only to pick up a passenger, not parked as the officer claimed. He glared at the officer as he said this, too. The judge was obviously NOT amused by this idiot's sense of right and wrong.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you but I've had other things occupying my mind like a very sick kitty who just had a blood transfusion. (He has a parasitic infection in his blood and is pretty sick.) But, at least I have good news to tell you. Being feisty comes in handy... every now and then. LOL
1 person likes this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Yeah, I know my mouth gets ahead of my brain sometimes. (Okay, a lot of times.) Can't help it, I'm Aries. LOL (Could that be a legal defense?)
I did shut up once he threatened me with having my car towed. I asked him how much the fine would be and he calmed down and showed me the phone number to call to find out how much this would cost if I decided to pay the fine. But, I only did that to defuse the tension. At that moment, I had no intention of paying the fine until a JUDGE tells me to pay it.
HOWEVER, I have since written my question on a local legal firm's website and received a response telling me that I should go to court and fight this. They also told me that I don't need to hire an attorney since this is something I should be able to handle on my own so I know they weren't just looking for a new client.
At least going to court I have a shot of getting this dismissed. Maybe the cop won't show up. Maybe the judge will agree with me that a warning should have been enough. It's just that my driving record is totally clean and that cop should have seen that and given me a warning since he thought I was breaking the law. Geez, he treated me like I had just murdered his mother! Well, okay, not quite that bad but his attitude was unwarranted which is what fired up my temper.
I really hate having to deal with the police. I've known too many with highly inflated egos who tend to replace an inferior body part of theirs with that night stick.
Nope, I haven't lost until the judge tells me to pay the fine and court costs. THEN I'll concede. Court is on December 5th. 2 people like this
@Chevee (5905)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Hi Marti, I am sorry this has happened to you. But you did learn a lesson, and that is not to do that anymore, even if you were in the right. I am not saying that you were. I am looking at the fact that you said it was a fire lane and really in the eyes of that officer you shouldn't have been there. I know you said you had witnessed another vehicle doing the same thing. Sometime we can't do what others do. I do believe if you go to court that you will be dissatified with the outcome and you will just be angry all over again. If I was in your situation I would just pay the ticket and get this over with once and for all. Whatever you decide to do I pray that you are satisfied and at peace with it. Be blessed.
2 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Hi Chevee. It wasn't a fire lane, it was a loading zone. I went back today to make sure and the curb is painted yellow, not red. Also, there are no signs stating that this was a fire lane.
I wrote to a lawyer today and received a response. He told me that I should go to court and fight this because it sounds like I was in the right. I'll have my son as a witness, too.
I have to fight this. I couldn't be happy with myself if I just paid the fine. That's why we have the opportunity to go to court in the first place. Besides, the officer might not show up that day (December 5) or the judge may agree with me that, because of my clean driving record, a warning should have been enough. At least it's worth a shot and I'm going for it.
Oh, you're very correct about me learning a lesson! Now that I know what the police are like around here, I'll NEVER use a loading area to pick up a passenger again, even though it IS legal. 
2 people like this
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I heard once that they have quotas to meet where their tickets are concerned. I think he could have found someone else doing something a little worse. You were stopped though so maybe you were easier to catch.
If I went to court, I would do all the things that you have mentioned except the dictionary. I might look up the town ordinances too though...there might be something in there about it and you don't want to go unprepared. I think they add court cost to the ticket if they find you should pay it. If he doesn't come to court, they might dismiss it too.
Good luck and take care.
4 people like this
@ShepherdSpy (8544)
• Omagh, Northern Ireland
13 Nov 11
There is this aspect of the Cop perhaps having a quota of tickets to issue,too...I hope the judge wouldn't consider this to me mitigating circumstances in favour of the Cop! It could be the cop had found himself an easy patch to boost his totals..
1 person likes this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I've heard that about quotas, too. I'm sure that had something to do with it and it's also quite plausible that he picked on me because I was easier to catch. I can't tell you how many idiots I see driving every day, speeding, tailgating, illegal turns, running red lights, you name it, they're all over the place. Why this guy wasn't out there stopping people who could potentially cause a really serious accident, well, you already said it, I was easier to catch.
I will be going to court on Dec. 5. It's worth it to me to at least try to get out of this since I believe I did nothing wrong. Besides, all the research I've been doing has indicated that I should fight it. Hopefully, he won't come to court that day and there won't be anything I have to defend.
1 person likes this
@cerebellum (3863)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I think you are right. I always thought that they put up NO PARKING signs so that emergency vehicles could get access to the building if need be. If your car was still running you could have moved it quickly if there was an emergency. That would not be the case if you had parked there. I don't know if you can fight it or not. It may depend on the type of judge you get. I guess you could hope that the officer won't show up that day.
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
The officer not showing up that day would be ideal but I won't count on it. I wrote to a local legal firm's website and asked them what I should do. They wrote back saying that I should go to court and defend myself on this. (They also told me I didn't need to hire a lawyer so they weren't just looking for a new client.)
I'm going to see if my son will take half a day off work to go with me. I may need him as a witness because he was in the car when I actually put it in park after the officer took my license and registration.
This wasn't a fire lane, it was a loading zone and I was picking up a passenger. I think it's a no-brainer but will have to leave it up to the judge and just hope I get a fair one.
2 people like this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
14 Dec 11
I went to court and the judge dismissed the case, stating that it was obvious that I was there only to pick up a passenger, not parked as the officer claimed.
1 person likes this
@cerebellum (3863)
• United States
11 Nov 11
Good Luck! If a legal firm told you to fight it, they must think you are in the right.
@zralte (4178)
• India
10 Nov 11
I don't know the law in your area, but from the point of view of a human, 'Parking' and 'Stopping' are two different things.
When you are 'Parking', you shut the engine, pull up your handbrake, and stays like that for sometime.
I would have encourage you to fight, but like you have already mentioned, don't let your anger into it. Calm down and think things carefully. Take a wide picture of the area with the 'No Parking' Sign, so that it can be clearly seen that there is no 'No Stopping' sign to be seen. Take a picture of the yellow line as well.
2 people like this
@ramonah (211)
• Romania
10 Nov 11
Parking and stopping are not the same thing. Now I don't know how the laws in your country are but here stopping doesn't mean just car engine running but it is also limited to 5 minutes. I got a ticket like that once. But here you have to either agree and sign to it, and pay the fine, or disagree and it is just handed to you unsigned and you can fight it in 10 (working) days otherwise it's considered signed and agreed to and you have to pay the fine. I disagreed and immediately went to an attorney with it. I was lucky to be stopped in front of a bank that had video supervision. So I proved that I was there less than 5 minutes and it was pretty easy. So I don't know about how things go around there but I think it was abuse from the policeman's side and you should find a way to fight it if you can. Try talkin to someone close to the law if you know anyone. Around here policemen do that often, knowingly or not, but don't really bother just because they know people don't think about fighting law with law. But it's really easy to do that and usually successful.
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
14 Dec 11
I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you but I've had a lot going on recently.
Anyway, I went to court and the judge dismissed the case!!! He said this should never have happened and the officer who issued the ticket looked so embarrassed I'm sure he won't be doing this again any time soon.
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
10 Nov 11
Hi ramonah. I wish we had that 5 minute law here because I was most definitely not there 5 minutes before my son got in the car. It was no longer than 1 minute.
I wrote my question in a legal firm's website and received a response from a lawyer telling me that I should go to court and fight this and that I do not need to hire a lawyer since I should be able to do this by myself. He agreed with me that I should not have received a ticket or at the most received a warning only.
So, I will be going to court on December 5th to fight this. Most people would probably just pay the fine and be done with it, you are right about that, but I cannot rest easy knowing that I received a ticket when I did nothing wrong without trying to defend myself in court.
1 person likes this
@RitterSport (2451)
• Lippstadt, Germany
11 Nov 11
hi mentalward I am sorry that happened to you and I got to tell you if I were in your shoes I would not pay the ticket and I would go to court if needed.
Like you said, stopping means that your car is not moving but you are still in the car and will go on driving somewhere else, e.g. you stop at a red light, you stop and open the passenger door to let your son enter the car after his errands, you stop for a short moment in a parking lot to give an qcquaintance a lift home.......
Parking means taking the key, leaving the vehicle and intending to come back anything from a few minutes to hours to days.
Stay strong and dont pay that ticket which was falsely given to you.
1 person likes this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
12 Nov 11
Thanks, RS. I've decided that I am going to court to fight this. I can't just pay the fine and still live with myself. Paying this fine would be like admitting I did something wrong and I know I didn't!
I went back there to take photos, just to show the judge that the curb was yellow, not red, indicating it was a loading zone. I was loading a passenger! I also wanted to document that there were no "no stopping" signs.
I agree with you about what parking means as opposed to stopping. I was in the car, the car was running with the headlights on, I had my seatbelt on, the car is in "drive" and I had my foot in the brake pedal. That is NOT parked! I sit at red lights longer than I was sitting there before this jerk knocked on my window!
This whole incident has lowered what little respect I have left for our "men in blue". Their motto is supposed to be "To Protect and To Serve" but too many of them think they can do whatever they want whenever they want, whether a crime has been committed or not. (THEY commit the crime in a lot of cases by lying.)
To think of all the people out there, breaking all kinds of traffic laws while moving, like running red lights and stop signs, speeding, tailgating, etc. and here is this pathetic cop hiding out in a parking lot to give tickets to people doing nothing wrong, it makes me sick. I actually couldn't sleep the night this happened. I mean all night I was awake because I was so upset. That meant that I hurt much more than I should because I have fibromyalgia and when I don't get a good night's sleep my pain level shoots way up, so I went through hell the next day, all because of this arrogant cop who thinks he can do whatever he wants and get away with it.
I'm going to court, all right, armed and ready to shoot this guy down. My son is going with me to say what he witnessed, which was everything.
I'm also going to write a letter to the editor of our local newspaper about the corruption in the police force, at least as much as I know first-hand and I know plenty. A lot of my cousins and their spouses were/are police officers and I've heard stories from them that make my skin crawl, about how they abuse that badge and the power that comes with it. (A cousin who is close to me in age had tried to get me to join the police force at one time and was telling me of all the "perks" that come with that position which most of us would get arrested or ticketed for if we were to do them. It makes me sick.)
1 person likes this
@RitterSport (2451)
• Lippstadt, Germany
12 Nov 11
dear mentalward its so good to read you will not pay that fine but you will fight it. Please keep us updated about it. Great your son saw everything and will go to court with you as a witness.
@moondancer (7433)
• United States
14 Nov 11
Well first of all I would go online and see if I could find an officer and ask him or her. Getting an officers opinion may help clear it up for you.
This happened to my first husband once...he sort of stopped at a stop sign according to the officer. He pulled up stepped on his brakes for an instant ...I'd say 5 seconds or so. He got a ticket for not stopping. Yes, he did. He told him he stopped, the officer told him that he did not stop completely until he has stopped for the count of one whole minute. That was considered a true stop. If this is the case then most people do not stop. So I now and have been for over 35 years stopped for over a minute to make it a proper stop at a stop sign.
Now for being parked you are parked if you are "parked" more than one minute. As a general rule.If your vehicle is setting at rest in one place for more than a minute or two then you are considered parked. I don't know that it is a written rule but as a rule of thumb for the officers to go by that is one just as for someone stopping at a stop sign.
You can also call the police station and ask to speak to the captain and he/she will explain it to you what is expected of the officers.
I do hope it works out for you. I do know that it is towards the end of the year and they have a quota to meet and they do start giving tickets for small things to meet them.
I wouldn't give them crap for this because if they don't meet their quota's then the number of officers on the force will go down. I'd hate to know they took out some of them when we all actually need more. I know we do.
Hugs....
@moondancer (7433)
• United States
14 Nov 11
You have certainly done your homework and the judge will be impressed, they love it when someone has researched what they are there for. Take all of what you have and state your case. I bet you get off. The officer will be there they are suppose to be and they get more money for being in court. I don't know why! Go figure!!!!
You are so right about all you said and like I said it is all unwritten laws. but if they wrote them all the books would be way too big to get through. lol
Good luck!
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
14 Nov 11
I think the quota thing is why I got the ticket because, if after one minute we're considered "parked", then I park at most red lights! As far as I know, it's illegal to park in the middle of the road, even if it is at a red light.
And, busses park all the time at bus "STOPS".
I've been searching and searching and have not come across anything that says I was parked. The dictionary definition says that you are stopped if you are in "drive" and parked if you are in "park". I was in drive until AFTER I handed the officer my driver's license. My son is witness to the exact moment when I put the car in park. I would not have put the car in park at all except for that cop stopping me!
If there is a law that states that a passenger must be standing at the curb to be picked up in order for anyone to be considered only stopping then I can't find it! I've been to many legal sites and read legal dictionaries and cannot find anything that says a passenger must be at the curb ready to jump in the car as it pulls up in order to be considered only "stopping".
My son was in the car well before a full minute was up and I had the car in drive until I handed over my license. I figured I was going to be there awhile so I put it in park at that point. IF that cop had not stopped me, I would have had my passenger in the car and moved on well before 60 seconds were up.
Even so, I have read absolutely nothing about any time limits for anything. The ONLY difference that I've been able to find has been regarding that gear shift. In "park", I'm parked. In "drive", I'm stopped. I was most definitely stopped until after that cop took my license and I have a witness to that. If he has one of those video cameras in his car, then it will show that my brake lights were on when he was strolling up to my car. I don't know a soul who keeps their foot on the brake pedal after they put their car in park!
I'm printing out the definitions from several dictionaries, including a legal dictionary, I took photos of the area showing that it is a loading zone and my son is going with me to court to testify that I had the car in drive until the officer took my license. I'll be going to court on Dec. 5th to fight this.
Besides, a local attorney advised me to fight this. He also said I don't need an attorney (I asked) so he wasn't just looking for a new client.
If there are all these so-called "unwritten laws", then they should be written down and made available to every driver out there. Legally, there is no such thing as an unwritten law.
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
14 Nov 11
Oh, the reason your husband was told about that "one minute" thing and the reason I was told I was parked was because police officers are always making things up as they need them to justify their asinine actions.
I bet you won't find anything written about being stopped for one full minute in order to be considered stopped. Oh, that means that the police are constantly breaking the law, right? I've NEVER seen one stop at a stop sign for one complete minute (60 full seconds)!
@ElicBxn (63594)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I would fight it, and you might win...
My sister was wrongly ticketed once and not only did the officer get reprimanded but he had to apologize to her, and Dad said he could tell he HATED doing it because he was having to apologize to a 16 yr old girl who was in the right!
1 person likes this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
12 Nov 11
I can imagine that guy being made to apologize to a 16-year-old! That was one humble pie he probably never did swallow completely. 
I would LOVE to get an apology from this guy, especially after the judge told him to do it! Of course, I'd have to really walk the straight-and-narrow after that because he'd probably be on the lookout for me. Actually, I'd be more afraid that he would try to frame me. Maybe I've just watched too many shows about corrupt cops.
I am going to court and plan to tell the judge that I am now afraid to have anything to do with the local police because they can do anything they want at any time. I took photos of the spot where I was stopped, complete with the yellow curb (NOT red) and the sign that said no parking ONLY, nowhere is there a sign saying 'No Stopping or Standing'. My son is going to court with me as well as a witness. He heard everything that cop said and he knows I was not parked.
It really pisses me off that I have to defend myself when I did nothing wrong in the first place. I got the ticket because this guy was hiding in a parking lot instead of going after the REAL criminals out there. On my way home from this incident, I was behind a woman when we both came up to a red light. She stopped, looked both ways, then went right through the red light! THAT is dangerous and she should have been stopped but where was that cop? Hiding in the parking lot waiting for his next innocent victim.
I would LOVE to get an apology from this guy, especially after the judge told him to do it! Of course, I'd have to really walk the straight-and-narrow after that because he'd probably be on the lookout for me. Actually, I'd be more afraid that he would try to frame me. Maybe I've just watched too many shows about corrupt cops.
I am going to court and plan to tell the judge that I am now afraid to have anything to do with the local police because they can do anything they want at any time. I took photos of the spot where I was stopped, complete with the yellow curb (NOT red) and the sign that said no parking ONLY, nowhere is there a sign saying 'No Stopping or Standing'. My son is going to court with me as well as a witness. He heard everything that cop said and he knows I was not parked.
It really pisses me off that I have to defend myself when I did nothing wrong in the first place. I got the ticket because this guy was hiding in a parking lot instead of going after the REAL criminals out there. On my way home from this incident, I was behind a woman when we both came up to a red light. She stopped, looked both ways, then went right through the red light! THAT is dangerous and she should have been stopped but where was that cop? Hiding in the parking lot waiting for his next innocent victim. 2 people like this
@shaggin (72125)
• United States
10 Nov 11
I understand how mad you are but really I think you were in the wrong. You cant just stop there and wait for someone to come out of the store even if it is very quickly. BUT I think that you did bring up valid points. Unfortunately they tend to side with the cops rather then normal every day people so you probably will lose trying to fight it in court and it will be a waste of your time and money. How much was the ticket that you were given? I would have been really mad to I think he should have been nice and just asked you to move your car and tell you not to park there again. Sounds like he was a cop who enjoys his authority a little to much and wants to earn as much money as he can for the city as he can rather then go fight the causes that need to be taken care of like crime! What is it really going to hurt if you were sitting there in your car? The reason it says no parking is because thats usually a fire lane in front of the buildings. If your car is there parked and you arent in it the firetrucks might have a harder time putting out the fire. But you WERE in the car and if a fire broke out and you were there I'm sure you would move out of the way as quickly as you could.
1 person likes this
@shaggin (72125)
• United States
14 Nov 11
Wow thats really neat that you looked up the information and found all that out. Just make sure those laws are valid in the state and city that you live in. Different states and cities have different rules. I really hope that you do win the case and I hope that he gets reprimanded for giving you a hard time about it and giving you a ticket so he will think twice about doing it again to someone else who wont be as brave as you and will just pay the ticket and not try to fight it. After you win I still think you should write a letter to the editor so that others in the area who may get pulled over in the future will know their rights!
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
14 Nov 11
Actually, I was not in the wrong. I've been doing my research. I was in a loading zone (yellow curb) and was not parked. Cars are allowed to stop in loading zones, just not park there and I was definitely not parked. There is no time limit placed on a vehicle that is stopped to pick up passengers or merchandise. And, since my passenger was in the car and had his seat belt on within 60 seconds of my stopping there, I shouldn't have even been considered for a ticket.
I'll be going to court on December 5th. Unless the cop bribes the judge and the judge is corrupt enough to accept a bribe, I'll get this thing dismissed. I honestly don't think I'll have any problems at all. I just wish this would never happen to anyone, having to defend themselves when they did absolutely nothing wrong.
1 person likes this
@freedomg (1684)
• United States
18 Nov 11
I know in Fl if the motor is running and it's less than 3 minutes it's not parking; but they will give us a hard time because they often think that you might be a get a way driver or something. Every state is different though so if you do fight it then be sure you are 100% right. Nothing worse then going into an argument just to find out you were wrong and then get stuck with the court costs. I hope you are right though and get to win this; how good would that feel. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Let us know how it turns out.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Let us know how it turns out.@mentalward (14690)
• United States
19 Nov 11
I've found that the difference between being parked and stopped is what gear the car is in. I had mine in drive. I didn't put it in park until AFTER I handed the guy my license and was looking for my registration. I KNOW he saw my brake lights on when he pulled up behind me and who keeps their foot on the brake when they're in park? No one I know. Besides, I have a witness to the exact moment I put the car in park because my son was in the car before I handed over my license and he saw me put it in park. He's going with me to court (Dec. 5th).
I just don't get it. He was standing there when my son got in the car so it was extremely obvious that I wasn't lying about picking up a passenger. I could find nothing written about exactly where the passenger should be at the time the driver pulls up to the curb. He was in the car in less than 60 seconds and I would have never put the car in park if it hadn't been for this cop who probably is just trying to fill his quota on "easy pickings". I saw at least 20 lawbreakers on the way home, all moving violations. Yesterday, I saw 2 parked cars (their engines were off) sitting beside a RED curb and they weren't getting tickets. I was beside a yellow curb, indicating this was a passenger/merchandise loading zone and that's exactly what I was doing. I think this jerk knew I was right but didn't like me telling him so which is why he threatened to have my car towed. Oh, I plan to tell that to the judge when he asks me to explain my side of it.
I'll let you know how it goes.
1 person likes this
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
14 Dec 11
The judge threw the case out!!! He said this should never have happened while he glared at the idiot cop for wasting his time. That cop couldn't have been more than 22 and looked as if he wished the courtroom floor would open up and swallow him. It was priceless! 
@bunnybon7 (50973)
• Holiday, Florida
10 Nov 11
i see your point and i dont blame you for being mad. ive seen people do the very same thing, many many times and no one gets ticketed for it. i guess anyone reading this tho will know not to ever do it again
but its not fair. @mentalward (14690)
• United States
12 Nov 11
Hi bunnybon. You're right, it's NOT fair. What I did was not illegal, either. I should never have been stopped. IF I had actually been parked there, a verbal warning should have been enough, considering my clean driving record. No, this cop was out to hand out as many tickets as he could. The judge may see that and just throw the case out without me saying anything. The cop may not appear in court simply because he knows he was in the wrong but was just hoping that I'd pay the fine instead of going to court to fight it.
You know what I hate the most? Having to go to court to defend myself for doing absolutely nothing against the law. I had every right to be at that curb, with my car running like it was, to pick up a passenger.
Well, I'll be going to court with copies of photos of the area to prove it was a loading zone and also take legal definitions of 'parking zone' and 'loading zone' and the entire "conversation" (I put that in quotation marks because it was more of a one-sided lecture than an actual two-way conversation) that I had with the cop. I plan to tell the judge that this moron threatened to have my car towed if I didn't shut up. That is total abuse of power and intimidation.
1 person likes this
@Rick1950 (1576)
• Lima, Peru
13 Nov 11
Hi Ward, I understand your anger, but you were not lucky that the cop was there at that moment. I expect that the fine is not much money. Anyway this will be more experience for you. And congrats because you've only two tickets in your record. 
@moondancer (7433)
• United States
14 Nov 11
I am so glad to hear you are in the right.
Yes, many cops do take advantage of their position especially the new ones. 
Oh I could just slap the crap out of them. The way they act and carry themselves. They puff out their chest and put their arms out like they have huge muscles which they don't, they look stupid and act stupid too. 
It makes you want to slap that stupidity right out of them and bring them back to reality. I swear!!!!
Yes, many cops do take advantage of their position especially the new ones. Oh I could just slap the crap out of them. The way they act and carry themselves. They puff out their chest and put their arms out like they have huge muscles which they don't, they look stupid and act stupid too. It makes you want to slap that stupidity right out of them and bring them back to reality. I swear!!!!@mentalward (14690)
• United States
13 Nov 11
Yeah, I sure wasn't lucky he was there. I guess he was just looking for easy targets while the REAL lawbreakers were on the road breaking all kinds of laws. They're not as easy to catch and I think this cop is just plain lazy.
I've done my research and collected information. I am definitely not guilty so I am going to court to fight this. I was in a loading zone and my car was running. It was not parked so I should never have been given a parking ticket. This stupid cop saw the car running but knew his uniform and badge allowed him to do whatever he wanted, including threaten me with having my car towed. I plan on telling the judge that he threatened me with that WHILE I WAS STILL SITTING IN THE CAR WITH IT RUNNING! He had no reason to threaten me like that othe than he's a class A bully. Too many police are bullies. They take advantage of that uniform and do whatever they want. I know because my cousin (a cop) has told me all kinds of horror stories about how she and other cops take advantage of their jobs because they know THEY won't get a ticket if they're caught speeding. They break more laws than anyone else I know! Pisses me off!
Anyway, I am going to court on December 5th. Maybe the officer won't show up and this will be dismissed but I have enough information (and photographs of the area) to prove that I was innocent. My son is taking off work half a day to go with me as a witness.
@Rick1950 (1576)
• Lima, Peru
14 Nov 11
Yeah, there are good and bad cops and the last are bullies. Also it happens with us. But I think you should take care and perhaps you need the assistance of a lawyer. If you've decided to exercise your right then go ahead. Keep us informed with the process and good luck.
