Why Public Education is Failing... We're Robbing Are Kids
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
September 25, 2007 7:04am CST
The goal of Education you to be to teach students to think. What it has become is teaching students to regurgitate information... actual learning is not only not necessary, it isn't even encouraged.
Look at the "look say" method of teaching spelling and vocabulary. The student looks at the word and tries to recognize it. If they can't, they ask the teacher, or someone else what the word is.
"Look Say" replaced phonics. Phonics requires the student "sound it out".. in other words, instead of turning to someone else to tell them what the word is, the student is required to do a little "problem solving" and use prior knowledge to come to a conclusion.. in other words "thinking".
Teachers in classes other than English all too often don't expect the students to practive what they have learned. "Does spelling count" is often answered with "no, as long as I know what you are trying to say"... the same with grammer. Teachers who do this are robbing their students.
In arithmatic, students used to be required to memorize multiplication tables and do simple problems in their heads. That required the person to remember the numbers and functions involved, then put that knowledge into practice.
Arithmatic is learned by doing. Hours spent figuring out problems turn into seconds spent doing simple math in their heads.
There is nothing wrong with calculators and computers to simplify and streamline processes... but when the calculator and computer replace the knowledge of how to do things... that is destructive.
Setting a standard, but not expecting the students to live up to it is absolutely the most destructive practice in our schools. When students are allowed to get away with falling short, but are rewarded anyway, they are taught that rules, laws, standards and ethics only apply to others. They are also taught that standards are simply arbitrary ideas that don't matter at all.
Administrators, teachers and parents have been robbing American students for decades now. Everytime a teacher excuses substandard performance... everytime a parent fights to have exceptions made for their kids... In fact, every time a student has been passed on to the next grade, or given a diploma they didn't earn... Everytime any of these things have happened, a kid has been robbed.
Quit stealing from our kids! Set Standards and Hold the Kids to Them. Be there to do all you can to help them learn. Teach them how to think, not just pass tests. Accept the fact that some students will choose to fail.
If we'll do this, we'll have the greatest education system in the history of mankind... and our society will be all the better for it.
3 people like this
13 responses
@laylomo (165)
• United States
30 Sep 07
We are an education-elitist country. The proposal to "accept the fact that some students will choose to fail ... [and] have the greatest education system in the history of mankind...and our society will be the better for it" is proof of that. I don't understand how our society can benefit from that. If we accept those students who wish to fail, they will FLOCK out of the school. What would they choose: no school or several hours in a building? Without any formal education, they'll be forced to work at McDonalds for the rest of their lives. Great society, don't you think? ParaTed2K, you propose we "set standards and hold the kids to them." And how do we, you suppose, make sure that students are "thinking"? Another test, perhaps? Hold them back and screw up the rest of their lives?
The blame, really, doesn't rest on teachers. It's the parents. Baby-boom parents have long sheltered kids, showering them with material items. No one's stressing education anymore. Politicians are also intruding on the matter, expecting uniform results (NCLB namely). Ironically, it produces adverse effects. The mentality of time, also, makes everything worse. Look at who teenagers idolize. "Just rap, and you can have oodles of women and cash! I didn't need school, you don't either!!"
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
15 Oct 07
Thanks for clarifying and yes, i did misunderstand what you meant. No, I don't think there should be any "uniformity" of education. I think that each county board of education should run their school system. Yes, there needs to be some oversight at the state level, but only oversight, not control.
I agree, "tests" tell us nothing. The only thing that tells us if a system is working or not is the results. There is no possible way to "test" long term retention of any subject. However, there is a great way to measure it, and that is to see how well the students are able to use it a couple of years down the road.
I know there are students who choose to fail because I was one. So were many of my friends. I've also been a youth counselor, paramedic, and Army NCO (which means I've spent most my adult life working with people significantly younger than myself). I have worked with people who have chosen to succeed, even when all indicators would suggest otherwise... and I've also worked with people who CHOOSE to fail.
When we take students who choose to fail, but prop them up anyway, we ROB the rest of the students. We rob them of the time, resources and motivation they deserve.
I graduated High School with a 1.7gpa. That was after 5 years of high school (I held myself back for a second 10th grade year). I rarely went to class (one 1st period English teacher reported that I had only made it to class 13 times one semester.
Here's something to think about when you say that no one "chooses" to fail. I graduated 345th out of a class of 400. That means that 55 people did WORSE than I did, and still graduated. That means over 56 of us Chose to fail, but were handed our diplomas anyway.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
10 Oct 07
Actually laylomo, it is your kind of defeatist attitude that allows lazy and unmotivated school officials to get away with the failures in our school system.
No, we don't just "give them another test" to see if they are "thinking", we give them opportunities to use what has been taught. We expect students in history class to use correct spelling and grammar. We expect kids in math classes to know and use the math skills they were taught in previous classes. We expect our elementary school officials to talk to Middle School officials...etc.. to see if the kids are prepared for the higher level classes. In other words, we don't teach kids to pass a test, then allow them to just forget what they have learned.
That is your way, and it has NEVER worked.
@laylomo (165)
• United States
11 Oct 07
I think you've misunderstand my post. I don't support testing AT ALL. I think teaching to any test, whether state, national, or SAT-like destroys the ideology of an education system. I never, in my post, said that test and children should go together. I brought up tests to counter your point. Let me explain.
I directly quoted your original post to illustrate that your suggestion is unfeasible - there is no way to verify these goals you seek. Sure, spelling and such is important, but what about ensuring retained information? Can you honestly say that education is uniform throughout the nation? In order to verify that some level of success is achieved, there must be some means of measurement (most viable is a test, which is contrary to your original post).
Moreover, I believe your original post is more defeating than anything I've post. You said that we must "accept that some students choose to fail". I think that a pretty good example of defeatist attitude. I argued that 1. we simply can't accept students who "wish" to fail 2. the blame rests on the shoulders of meddling politicians, negative influence of the time, and protective parents. As long as we remove the politicians from the mix, fosters a new environment that encourages learning, the education system will improve.
1 person likes this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
26 Sep 07
..Our society WAS all the better for it.. once.. Rugged individualism and able to think and do for yourself was the key! When all learn to repeat by rote, including slogans and actual ways of thinking.. and everyone expects a magical big brother to see to it their health and wealth is somehow secured, owed and guaranteed for them, that society changes. Yet once everyone leans on the system, soon the only resources left for the system is air.. Because everyone is leaning on it. So few people realize this, and there seems (to me) to be a mad rush on to solve all things with a new government program.. But each time a new program comes about, government has morphed into much bigger, and more importantly, stronger, government. Folks, this is never good.
- Education should be reading, writing and arithmetic.. in all their modern forms and uses.. That should keep the teachers plenty busy without their busying themselves on putting out what they think of as 'correct thinking people'.
- As of now, there are still some good teachers.. but I do believe they are becoming too rapidly fewer in number. After all the teachers are all educated too..
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Sep 07
Thanks Flowerchilde! You're right, teachers should concetrate on helping kids learn HOW to think, instead of WHAT to think.
@theprogamer (10534)
• United States
1 Oct 07
Quoted for truth and seconded Flower.
Though I'd add Civics and US Government, History to that curriculum.
Seems more stateside citizens don't have a clue when it comes to their own country's history, how the government works and what people recently & currently in government have been doing, the good, the bad and the ugly.
2 people like this
@estherlou (5015)
• United States
8 Oct 07
Very well said. I feel public education has been lacking for quite a long time now. I am so glad my children are grown and I don't have to put them into public schools. I am even more thankful that my son works hard to keep his 4 kids in private, Christian schools where they are taught values, and get more attention per student. Learning to let students slide by is a dangerous, slippery slope that gets worse with time.
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
10 Oct 07
Yes, it is dangerous, but it is also the easy way, so it is the way the gets used. It's also the way that allows teachers, students and parents to point their fingers at the others, never accepting any responsibility for failure. The thing is, in that triade it is only the teachers who get paid and consider themselves "professionals".
Can you think of any other professionals who allow the standard to fall so low?
@Bunsdk (242)
• Denmark
25 Sep 07
Noticed over time some of those problems myself.
Both from own experiences and friends and reading tests conducted lately to see what is going on.
An example: three classes for German class. Two with the same teacher, mine with a different.
32 of the two other classes continued third year in "expert german", 3 from my class did "expert"
4 from those two classes had to do "standard german", 12 from my class did standard.
Now that is a classical example of a teacher who shouldnt teach.
But also resent studies state that now is the highest dropout rate for higher learnings. Some education lines have up to 41% dropouts.
Illiteracy is an all time high.
Functional analfabets is an all time high (ppl who cant write, but can read enough to go by)
The reading speed of kids is at a setback.
The overall reading volume is much less.
And skipped schooldays topped 2 years ago.
@cynddvs (2948)
• United States
25 Sep 07
Every school district in America is different so it's hard to say that they are all bad and setting our kids up for failure. The school district I lived in growing up was pretty descent. I went to a good high school and I feel I earned my diploma and my teachers helped me. That was 8 years ago and now that I have a 2 year old I'm honestly worried about what schools will be like when she starts.
A good friend of mine has a little boy who just started the 1st grade. Unfortunately the school he goes to isn't the greatest. He is the smartest little boy in his grade and learns very quickly while some of the other students in his class aren't fortunate enough to have parents to work with them at home to learn the things they need to know. So while all of the other students are trying to catch up to get to my friends sons level he is being put on the back burner and not learning as much as he could. It's very unfortunate and my friend is looking to move into a better school district as soon as they can sell their house.
I think education first needs to come from the parents. Parents need to push their kids to want to learn more and to get excited about school. One thing I think is great to get kids excited about school and to expand their minds are arts and music programs. Unfortunately a lot of schools are losing their music programs. I think this is a huge mistake.
People keep saying how hard schools are on kids and how they should be easier on the kids on not put so much pressure on them. I tend to disagree with this. I think a lot of schools aren't hard enough on kids and the problem is that kids are just getting lazy. Going easy on kids in school is not going to do anything to prepare them for college and the real world. Life isn't easy.
2 people like this
@tigertang (1749)
• Singapore
16 Oct 07
I'm with you on this one - good schools and good students should be highlighted and turned into heros. It should not be cool to do things like try and mix the kids who can learn faster than others with the kids who are a bit slower because you're afraid of hurting the kids feelings. You should keep kids in classes with other kids that learn at the same pace and teach them accordingly.
Anyway, where I come from we have some of the same problems you have in the USA - Good schools get richer and better while the poor ones rot and we also have some unique problems - our kids are good at passing exams but nothing else.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Sep 07
That's true, there are some excellent schools and excellent school systems in public education. You are also right that school districts are different, so we shouldn't try a "one size fits all" approach.
The thing is, all too often we hold the great schools up as evidence that things "aren't so bad". We also do the same thing with the great students.
The thing is, it isn't the straight A kids who tell the tale about their school.. it's how many kids are on the other end. Most straight A kids are going to do well no matter where they are. The kids on the other end of the bell curve are where teaching truly starts.
Couldn't agree with you more about parents. Learning should start at home, and the schools should be there to back up the parents. Unfortunately, like all government programs, once the government said they'd do the job, the parents basically said, "good, now I don't have to".
Music, sadly, has been relegated to nothing more than entertainment in our society. If kids were taught music at a young age, all other subjects would be easier for them. Why? Because learning music includes all disciplines of learning... and most kids love it.
1 person likes this
@theprogamer (10534)
• United States
29 Sep 07
I definitely agree stateside education needs an overhaul. Its not just the system though its also society's apathy and stigma towards education. Its also the kids not wanting to learn or put for the effort. Its the teachers who really don't teach or they just spew their opinion for hours on end and supposedly that's "teaching" -_-. I could go on and on but look at my response responding. I think I've posted enough.
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
15 Oct 07
Exactly! Many students don't give a crap about what is being taught... and too many "teachers" don't give a crap about teaching, they just want to spew their opinions on a captive audience.
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
25 Oct 07
I think public education has become a teaching the kids what to think.. why bother with reading, writing, arithmetic, accurate history and unsuppressed science? [Speaking of science, since the discovery of the cell and its complexity, and the DNA code in all life, the debate should now be not IF there was intelligent design but what is the intelligence or intelligences which did design, but this is suppressed. And the theory of origins taught is enforced, but none of the questions or problems with it is allowed to be brought up! It's all an effort to educate everyone on what to think, and no longer is it to teach what's needed to get good employment and be able to support oneself and family as an adult. Big bro can do that I guess! Support everyone that is.]
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Oct 07
Exactly! Just look at what teachers consider a "good student" nowadays. A student that sits quietly, does what they are told and never questions what is being taught.
That's not a good student, that's a good zombie.
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
26 Sep 07
Hello ParaTed,
Another bullseye! Wow, you are certainly on a roll, my friend.
I haven't much to offer outside of my responses to individual replies, herein. However, I'm inclined to suggest that your views rank you among those parents in this country who deserve a great big, gold star. Parents who care enough to recognize the system's failures, and pin-point even basic probable solutions are a boon to the possible 180 that's necessary to get the USA back on track.
This topic, coupled with your 'feel good' topic suggests to me that you are indeed, an involved, particapatory parent. I'm sure that one day your children will thank you because of your commitment to their excellence. Way to go!!!
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Sep 07
Half right... my daughter and 2nd son (the missionary) struggled. Thanks for playing ;~D
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Sep 07
Thanks, we worked hard and stayed active in our 4 kids' education (ok my wife worked harder and was more active than I, but anyway). 2 of our kids were highly motivated and grasped concepts quickly... a rock could have taught them.
The other 2 had a really hard time, especially in math and science classes. I remember them crying over their homework bemoaning, "I'll never learn this stuff!" The counselors agreed, since they were diagnosed with various learning disorders. We didn't believe them.
Even those two took math all 4 years in high school, and AP classes their senior year. My oldest is a senior at UW-Green Bay. The next is a missionary. My only daughter graduated last year and will be starting pre-med in January (she wants to be a pediatrician). Our youngest is a senior this year. He has the most amazing combination of logical thinking and creative imagination.
I'll let you try to figure out which of the two excelled and which struggled every inch of the way.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Sep 07
I hope that's true there, it is true in some schools here too. Unfortunately for our kids, most schools are as mediocre as they want to be.
@Debs_place (10520)
• United States
25 Sep 07
My son is dyslexic, dysgraphic, he had fine motor skills problems and visual tracking problems as well as being ADHD.
At the end of 4th grade, his reading level was a whopping 1.3. I insisted that he be held back, the school psychologist response - why he is not immature.
The work he handed in, was mediocre at best, never did his papers have spelling or grammar corrections unless it was for English. I tried to get him to pay more attention, but why..his teachers did not care about those things. I did all I could. Tutors, books, reading to him, reading with him. The school did not support me.
BTW - his spoken vocbulary at the age of 7 was 12th grade - I read to him a lot. He could do multiplication and division at the age of 5. The school blamed my parenting for him being unable to read.
I had to see a lawyer and threaten with a 35K a year special school before he got the help he needed. 20 minutes reading help 3x a week did not cut it.
In 1st grade his spelling list included words like auditorium and cafeteria, in 3rd grade he still wrote his name backwards, in 6th grade he could not write cursive.
In high school he could not take AP math courses - he could tell you the answer to a problem after doing it mentally, but he could not write it, so he could not take classes that challenged the one area he excelled in.
He barely graduated. He hated school.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Sep 07
He hated school, and the school officials hated his kind. They blamed you for their own incompetence. You asked them to hold him back, and they should have, but holding him back would make THEM look bad, so they let their pathetic egos get in the way of educating your son.
The fact he excelled in a few subjects, but had a hard time reading should have told them something... if they were paying attention.
He didn't fit in their cookie cutter world, so they tried to make him fit.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
26 Sep 07
Debs_place I sort of know how you feel. My brother has dyslexia, but the way they deal with that in his high school is to put him in the lower sets classes. The lower sets classes are full of kids they don't expect to do very well in their final exams and they are meant to work harder with these kids to bring them up to the level, but it's absolutely impossible because the classes are full of the loud and disruptive kids. My brother hates being in these classes because he's not like that and because of how his peers percieve him - he thinks everyone just 'thinks he's stupid', when infact he's actually very intelligent just can't read or write very well.
This is a terrible thign to do to these sort of children because it does nothing for their already low self-esteem. He's becoming very withdrawn and hardly ever goes out with his friends in the evenings so it has obviously affected him, he used to love being out with his friends. I think this is an indicator of social problems he may have in future.
He didn't go to school for a whole term last year and the school's response was to threaten my mum - telling her that she will face fines or even a prison sentence. This was a load of rubbish as we already knew because if you are seen to be doing all that you can to encourage your child they can't punish you for it. But it just goes to show how little some people in this system understand.
I have to say some of his teachers have been very helpful. But they are a minority. And I would have thought that more would be trained well enough to understand that a truanting child isn't just one who is too lazy to go in to school, some are facing personal problems.
@Debs_place (10520)
• United States
26 Sep 07
That is true, Fortunately for my son, he was a jock, playing hockey and lacrosse, so he had a lot of friends, and self esteem was not as bad as it could have been.
I remember when he was in 3rd grade, he cried, cause he said he was stupid, he worked harder then all the other kids in the class and got the worse grades. It broke my heart.
My son spent over a year in the program to be an electrician, then the 2nd year had to miss over 25% of the class because he did not have all the credits he needed to graduate due to his special ed classes.
1 person likes this
@carolscash (9492)
• United States
23 Oct 07
I believe the biggest problem with the education system these days is the fact that they are too money oriented. The schools that they build have to have the nicest things in them and they are too concentrated on sports than on learning. Who has the better football team isn't the important thing?
Also, the schools get money for the students that attend that school and that it what they are concerned with.
I pulled my kids from public school a few years ago and I home school them as I felt they were being pushed through school without really learning. I feel sorry for them as we still struggle with the reading issues for they didnt read well in school and so it has been a long struggle.
I have one child who is 16 and doesn't see what the importance of spelling. She has said to me,"we didn't have to spell right in school". I say well this isn't school.
It is sad the number of students who graduate and can't read or spell.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
23 Oct 07
The biggest problem with our "education" system is they spend too much time on "social issues" and too much money on frills.
I commend you for taking your kids out of the meat grinder and expecting them to Learn.
@Zorrogirl (1502)
• South Africa
16 Oct 07
i wish you could visit south africa. currently, they are lowering the education standards, because the poor people struggle. ha ha ha. they dont want to learn. they want everything free. its too much to explain here. its just disgusting.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
17 Oct 07
More Lowering of Standards!! ACK!
I wonder, would those I've served been better off if they lowered the standards for Parachute Riggers and Paramedics?
Might as well give it a try, right? LOL
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
22 Oct 07
Oh, don't get me wrong, I would rather raise my kids in the USA than ANY other country (although I would like to have been able to take them to other countries).
My intentions here are merely to discuss public education, not to air dirty laundry.
@Zorrogirl (1502)
• South Africa
17 Oct 07
our special needs leaders seem to think a higher passrate is more important than high standards. we are thinking of moving to america. do some searching on why sa sucks . you will feel better about america instantly.
2 people like this
@kitty1234 (1476)
• United States
25 Sep 07
Why Public Education is Failing...We're Robbing Are Kids
Why Public eductaion is Failing...We are robbing OUR Kids!
As a teacher I am inclined to take offense with this discussion! All the teachers I know work very hard to help our students achieve the best that they can be. No one chooses to fail, some students are unable to grasp the lessons as quickly as the rest. Of course there are curves and exceptions for certain students, this is not a perfect world and we need to be flexible at times. Students are still memorizing the multiplication tables and learning simplified ways to solve problems without paper and pencil. The standards are set for every student, but there are some that need the extra encouragement of a passing grade. In the world we are all different and we all learn at a different speed, there will always be exceptions to the rules, we are not rigid and demanding on a child that is trying their best. The best you can do is all we can ask. There are adults in the world who need exceptions in the workplace, it does not mean they are sub-standard! It just means we are all different and grasp information fed to us at a different pace!
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Sep 07
But if the kid continues to let that circumstance continue, that is a choice in itself. Yes, there are circumstances that get in the way, but the point is, that yes, kids often CHOOSE to fail.
1 person likes this
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
25 Sep 07
The White House may not be in California but it might as well be considering some of the crap that gets adopted just because California did it.
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Sep 07
I remember being taught that the earth's gravitational pull is the result of the earth spinning. I also remember reciting the vowels as "A E I O U, and sometimes Y and W". The times "W" is a vowel (so I as taught) was in words that end in an "O" sound... like Window and Shadow.
No wonder I graduated with a 1.7gpa! ;~D
1 person likes this
